I have a Bally -35 MPU board, very clean. It test perfect in a MPU test fixture. It also will get all 7 flashes in a game. The problem is when you put it in a game, (several different games tried) after the 7th flash it freezes up. will not go into attract mode. Anyone ever see this and have a fix for it?
On 2020/07/18 3:35 p.m., Robert Hoffman wrote:I can't do a switch test because the game will not even boot up.
I have a Bally -35 MPU board, very clean. It test perfect in a MPU test fixture. It also will get all 7 flashes in a game. The problem is when you put it in a game, (several different games tried) after the 7th flash it freezes up. will not go into attract mode. Anyone ever see this and have a fix for it?
At this point I'd be doing the Switch Test to see if it registers
switches correctly.
Boot flashes only tests the very most critical parts, it doesn't check
the switches or solenoid action...
John :-#)#
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On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 7:16:36 PM UTC-4, John Robertson wrote:
On 2020/07/18 3:35 p.m., Robert Hoffman wrote:
I have a Bally -35 MPU board, very clean. It test perfect in a MPU test fixture. It also will get all 7 flashes in a game. The problem is when you put it in a game, (several different games tried) after the 7th flash it freezes up. will not go into attract mode. Anyone ever see this and have a fix for it?At this point I'd be doing the Switch Test to see if it registers
switches correctly.
Boot flashes only tests the very most critical parts, it doesn't check
the switches or solenoid action...
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
I can't do a switch test because the game will not even boot up.
Thats the problem, It not booting up after the 7th flash.
Rob
On 7/18/2020 9:21 PM, Robert Hoffman wrote:That sounded good but it did not work. I replaced U7, U8, U9, U10, U11, Game Rom
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 7:16:36 PM UTC-4, John Robertson wrote:
On 2020/07/18 3:35 p.m., Robert Hoffman wrote:
I have a Bally -35 MPU board, very clean. It test perfect in a MPU test fixture. It also will get all 7 flashes in a game. The problem is when you put it in a game, (several different games tried) after the 7th flash it freezes up. will not go into attract mode. Anyone ever see this and have a fix for it?At this point I'd be doing the Switch Test to see if it registers
switches correctly.
Boot flashes only tests the very most critical parts, it doesn't check
the switches or solenoid action...
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
I can't do a switch test because the game will not even boot up.
Thats the problem, It not booting up after the 7th flash.
Rob
Clear the RAM. I've seen some pretty funky stuff when it has corrupted data.
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 10:25:05 PM UTC-4, Paul wrote:
On 7/18/2020 9:21 PM, Robert Hoffman wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 7:16:36 PM UTC-4, John Robertson wrote:Clear the RAM. I've seen some pretty funky stuff when it has corrupted data.
On 2020/07/18 3:35 p.m., Robert Hoffman wrote:
I have a Bally -35 MPU board, very clean. It test perfect in a MPU test fixture. It also will get all 7 flashes in a game. The problem is when you put it in a game, (several different games tried) after the 7th flash it freezes up. will not go into attract mode. Anyone ever see this and have a fix for it?At this point I'd be doing the Switch Test to see if it registers
switches correctly.
Boot flashes only tests the very most critical parts, it doesn't check >>>> the switches or solenoid action...
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
I can't do a switch test because the game will not even boot up.
Thats the problem, It not booting up after the 7th flash.
Rob
That sounded good but it did not work. I replaced U7, U8, U9, U10, U11, Game Rom
Still no change. Will not go into attract node.
Rob
On 2020/07/18 7:32 p.m., Robert Hoffman wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 10:25:05 PM UTC-4, Paul wrote:
On 7/18/2020 9:21 PM, Robert Hoffman wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 7:16:36 PM UTC-4, John Robertson wrote: >>>> On 2020/07/18 3:35 p.m., Robert Hoffman wrote:Clear the RAM. I've seen some pretty funky stuff when it has corrupted data.
I have a Bally -35 MPU board, very clean. It test perfect in a MPU test fixture. It also will get all 7 flashes in a game. The problem is when you put it in a game, (several different games tried) after the 7th flash it freezes up. will not go into attract mode. Anyone ever see this and have a fix for it?At this point I'd be doing the Switch Test to see if it registers
switches correctly.
Boot flashes only tests the very most critical parts, it doesn't check >>>> the switches or solenoid action...
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
I can't do a switch test because the game will not even boot up.
Thats the problem, It not booting up after the 7th flash.
Rob
That sounded good but it did not work. I replaced U7, U8, U9, U10, U11, Game Rom
Still no change. Will not go into attract node.
Rob
Which game is this for? Check DIP switches are set to the factory. A few games are known to have odd results if the switches are wrong, that isI'm trying to test it in a Bally Rolling Stones, I also tried it in my Flash Gordon.
why knowing the game name will help.
John :-#)#
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(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
What happens when you only plug in J4? Same thing?
On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 12:36:37 PM UTC-4, matt...@gmail.com wrote:
What happens when you only plug in J4? Same thing?
I get all 7 flashes
Maybe try making one more connection at a time to narrow down the connector/area that is causing problems.
On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 3:59:43 PM UTC-4, matt...@gmail.com wrote:
Maybe try making one more connection at a time to narrow down the connector/area that is causing problems.
I changed out the 555 Timer chip. Did not help.
It is strange, I tried it in several different games so I know it's a board problem.
I get all 7 flashed, after the 7th flash, the LED should go dim and then put the game into attrack mode. However
after the 7th flash the LED gos out, it like it just hangs up.
ROb
On 2020/07/20 11:18 p.m., Robert Hoffman wrote:
On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 3:59:43 PM UTC-4, matt...@gmail.com wrote:
Maybe try making one more connection at a time to narrow down the connector/area that is causing problems.
I changed out the 555 Timer chip. Did not help.
It is strange, I tried it in several different games so I know it's a board problem.
I get all 7 flashed, after the 7th flash, the LED should go dim and then put the game into attrack mode. However
after the 7th flash the LED gos out, it like it just hangs up.
RObYou didn't answer my question about the MPU test fixture.
Also, my concern was the RC components, not the 555 itself...
John :-#(#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 11:55:13 AM UTC-4, John Robertson wrote:
On 2020/07/20 11:18 p.m., Robert Hoffman wrote:
On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 3:59:43 PM UTC-4, matt...@gmail.com wrote:You didn't answer my question about the MPU test fixture.
Maybe try making one more connection at a time to narrow down the connector/area that is causing problems.
I changed out the 555 Timer chip. Did not help.
It is strange, I tried it in several different games so I know it's a board problem.
I get all 7 flashed, after the 7th flash, the LED should go dim and then put the game into attrack mode. However
after the 7th flash the LED gos out, it like it just hangs up.
ROb
Also, my concern was the RC components, not the 555 itself...
John :-#(#
--
Does the Bally Brown Box test fixture, does it check the connectors for proper signals like the Stern SAM IV ( I doubt it, it's very primitive )
I'm not very knowledgeable about these MPU boards. I know enough to get me in trouble. I don't know anything about the 555 timer circuit.
On 2020/07/21 9:06 a.m., Robert Hoffman wrote:
On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 11:55:13 AM UTC-4, John Robertson wrote:
On 2020/07/20 11:18 p.m., Robert Hoffman wrote:
On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 3:59:43 PM UTC-4, matt...@gmail.com wrote: >>>> Maybe try making one more connection at a time to narrow down the connector/area that is causing problems.You didn't answer my question about the MPU test fixture.
I changed out the 555 Timer chip. Did not help.
It is strange, I tried it in several different games so I know it's a board problem.
I get all 7 flashed, after the 7th flash, the LED should go dim and then put the game into attrack mode. However
after the 7th flash the LED gos out, it like it just hangs up.
ROb
Also, my concern was the RC components, not the 555 itself...
John :-#(#
--
Does the Bally Brown Box test fixture, does it check the connectors for proper signals like the Stern SAM IV ( I doubt it, it's very primitive ) I'm not very knowledgeable about these MPU boards. I know enough to get me in trouble. I don't know anything about the 555 timer circuit.
Then you might want to send it off to someone who fixes these things
enough to finish the job. I suspect it is something minor but without
the test gear it is hard to guess...
John :-#)#
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(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
I changed out the 555 Timer chip. Did not help.
Robert Hoffman wrote:
I changed out the 555 Timer chip. Did not help. https://ohmslawcalculator.com/555-astable-calculator
Punch in the numbers from the schematic around the 555 timer and it will tell you the frequency, handy if you have an oscilloscope or a frequency counter as John said.
You also could just replace the resistors and cap around the 555 timer. They're cheap and you've already shotgunned some other stuff.
Did you answer the question about the displays? Do they stay blank?
Are you sure the roms are selecting properly? For instance if you
burned Bally code into your eproms, there are conditions on games where
you think it's passing all the tests (checksum wise on roms) but it
never actually selects anything other than u6, so it will 'pass'
everything, but when the game comes up and needs to select other code in other chips, it can't and just crashes. This is an outlier condition
though and not very common (usually occurs when the board is set for
2716's and someone has put 2732's in without adjusting the jumpers)
I have the board jumpered for two 2732's, I have tried the board in a
Flash Gordon with Flash Gordon rom's, and I have tried Rolling Stones
Rom's in a Rolling Stones game. I do get a flicker in the displays
during the boot up cycle. I do not have a frequency counter.
Robert Hoffman wrote:
I have the board jumpered for two 2732's, I have tried the board in a Flash Gordon with Flash Gordon rom's, and I have tried Rolling Stones Rom's in a Rolling Stones game. I do get a flicker in the displays
during the boot up cycle. I do not have a frequency counter.
Wouldn't hurt to replace the resistors and caps around the 555 circuit
then. Don't have a bally schematic handy next to me but on stern mpu200
it's C16 .1 ufd, R21 36k, R22 4.7k. It should be pretty obvious on the
-35 schematics as well.
You sure you have the roms for those games combined correctly to 2732's? i.e. the eproms are fine in other games?
On Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 11:58:05 AM UTC-4, seymour-shabow wrote:
Robert Hoffman wrote:
I have the board jumpered for two 2732's, I have tried the board in a Flash Gordon with Flash Gordon rom's, and I have tried Rolling Stones Rom's in a Rolling Stones game. I do get a flicker in the displays during the boot up cycle. I do not have a frequency counter.
Wouldn't hurt to replace the resistors and caps around the 555 circuit then. Don't have a bally schematic handy next to me but on stern mpu200 it's C16 .1 ufd, R21 36k, R22 4.7k. It should be pretty obvious on the
-35 schematics as well.
You sure you have the roms for those games combined correctly to 2732's? i.e. the eproms are fine in other games?Yes I have a good rom. The rom I'm using is off of the good working Rolling Stones board.
I will replace the resistors & caps around the 555 Circuit.
Thanks
Rob
Scott, I replaced all the resistors & Caps in the 555 timer circuit.
Still not going into attract mode. Still baffled.
Robert Hoffman wrote:He should also take a close look at the IC sockets. It is possible that
Scott, I replaced all the resistors & Caps in the 555 timer circuit.
Still not going into attract mode. Still baffled.
Dunno at this point, you'll need other equipment to check other things.
If you have a logic probe you can probably stick it on the eprom
enable pins and look for activity to see if it's trying to at least run something from them or truly just locked up.
Did you try different PIA's as well - the self test can't test
everything on them so they might 'pass' but still be bad.
Also have you tried it with j2 and j3 removed?
On 2020/07/24 4:40 a.m., seymour.shabow wrote:
Robert Hoffman wrote:
Scott, I replaced all the resistors & Caps in the 555 timer circuit.
Still not going into attract mode. Still baffled.
Dunno at this point, you'll need other equipment to check other things.
If you have a logic probe you can probably stick it on the eprom
enable pins and look for activity to see if it's trying to at least run something from them or truly just locked up.
Did you try different PIA's as well - the self test can't test
everything on them so they might 'pass' but still be bad.
Also have you tried it with j2 and j3 removed?He should also take a close look at the IC sockets. It is possible that
one or more of the socket pins is damaged to the point where it is no
longer making contact.
I suggest using the Bally MPU troubleshooting procedure as outlined in
the Brown book. Using an ohm-meter check that each pin of the various
ICs are connected to their correct counterparts. This is time consuming
(the Stern SAM IV makes very short work of that test) but it will find errors in connections. Connection issues are amongst the most common problems in anything!
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
On Friday, July 24, 2020 at 12:34:08 PM UTC-4, John Robertson wrote:
On 2020/07/24 4:40 a.m., seymour.shabow wrote:
Robert Hoffman wrote:He should also take a close look at the IC sockets. It is possible that
Scott, I replaced all the resistors & Caps in the 555 timer circuit.
Still not going into attract mode. Still baffled.
Dunno at this point, you'll need other equipment to check other things.
If you have a logic probe you can probably stick it on the eprom
enable pins and look for activity to see if it's trying to at least run
something from them or truly just locked up.
Did you try different PIA's as well - the self test can't test
everything on them so they might 'pass' but still be bad.
Also have you tried it with j2 and j3 removed?
one or more of the socket pins is damaged to the point where it is no
longer making contact.
I suggest using the Bally MPU troubleshooting procedure as outlined in
the Brown book. Using an ohm-meter check that each pin of the various
ICs are connected to their correct counterparts. This is time consuming
(the Stern SAM IV makes very short work of that test) but it will find
errors in connections. Connection issues are amongst the most common
problems in anything!
John :-#)#
I will try all of this over the weekend
Thanks Rob
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