• Tech Help- 54 United 11th Frame Shuffle Alley

    From Butch Horwath@butchhorwath@gmail.com to rec.games.pinball on Friday, April 17, 2020 18:27:09
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.pinball

    I know this is a pinball forum but hopefully someone that is familiar with the old United Shuffle Alleys can help. On my 54 11th Frame Shuffle Alley, the bell for strikes and spares has not worked for several years. Basically the coil fell apart and I just let it go until now. I have a schematic for a Delux 11th Frame which is slightly different but I'm assuming most of it is the same. For the bell it shows a 2-24-600 coil. PBR doesn't have that or its closest coil a 2-24-650. Steve Young suggested that I try a Williams B1-26-800 coil. That didn't do the trick. Does anyone know if I need the exact coil for the bell to work or is there something in the 1-10 and 100's relays or possibly something else I should be looking at.
    Thanks
    Butch Horwath
    Butchhorwath@gmail.com
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  • From John Robertson@spam@flippers.com to rec.games.pinball on Friday, April 17, 2020 18:43:49
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.pinball

    On 2020/04/17 6:27 p.m., Butch Horwath wrote:
    I know this is a pinball forum but hopefully someone that is familiar with the old United Shuffle Alleys can help. On my 54 11th Frame Shuffle Alley, the bell for strikes and spares has not worked for several years. Basically the coil fell apart and I just let it go until now. I have a schematic for a Delux 11th Frame which is slightly different but I'm assuming most of it is the same. For the bell it shows a 2-24-600 coil. PBR doesn't have that or its closest coil a 2-24-650. Steve Young suggested that I try a Williams B1-26-800 coil. That didn't do the trick. Does anyone know if I need the exact coil for the bell to work or is there something in the 1-10 and 100's relays or possibly something else I should be looking at.

    Thanks
    Butch Horwath
    Butchhorwath@gmail.com


    Bells aren't particularly fussy about the coil - as long as it fits and
    is similar in wire gauge and number of turns. 800 turns vs 850 is not a problem.

    However, you should get some action on your bell.

    What exactly is happening? Whatever controls the bell may well be the problem...

    John :-#)#
    PS, it is hard to read messages that do not use paragraphs - please try
    to break your answer and questions up a bit - thanks!

    --
    (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
    John's Jukes Ltd.
    MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
    (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
    www.flippers.com
    "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
    --- Synchronet 3.17c-Win32 NewsLink 1.112
  • From Butch Horwath@butchhorwath@gmail.com to rec.games.pinball on Friday, April 17, 2020 19:26:42
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.pinball

    John

    Thanks for the reply. The bell does not ring after scoring a strike or spare. The original coil was a United 2-24-600. Steve Young gave me a Williams B2-26-800 to try. I'm assuming he thought the Williams coil would work.
    I know the 1-10 and 100's relays have something to do with the bell. I'm trying to figure out if anything else is involved. I could try to send pictures of the schematic if you want.

    Thanks again

    Butch
    --- Synchronet 3.17c-Win32 NewsLink 1.112
  • From timnewarkny@timnewarkny@gmail.com to rec.games.pinball on Friday, April 17, 2020 19:52:24
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.pinball

    On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 9:27:16 PM UTC-4, Butch Horwath wrote:
    I know this is a pinball forum but hopefully someone that is familiar with the old United Shuffle Alleys can help. On my 54 11th Frame Shuffle Alley, the bell for strikes and spares has not worked for several years. Basically the coil fell apart and I just let it go until now. I have a schematic for a Delux 11th Frame which is slightly different but I'm assuming most of it is the same. For the bell it shows a 2-24-600 coil. PBR doesn't have that or its closest coil a 2-24-650. Steve Young suggested that I try a Williams B1-26-800 coil. That didn't do the trick. Does anyone know if I need the exact coil for the bell to work or is there something in the 1-10 and 100's relays or possibly something else I should be looking at.

    Thanks
    Butch Horwath
    Butchhorwath@gmail.com
    Your machine's coils runs on 30 volts. I'd have to think Steve send you a
    25 volt coil and if it physically fits, I'd have to think it would work
    okay for just a quick pulse. Have you checked when a strike or spare is
    made that 30 volts isn't (or is) going to the bell coil?
    I'm pretty sure for the 1 - 10 Relay to energize, the current has to
    travel through a series of contacts in each pin relay. I'm also pretty
    sure the bell energizes through the same circuit as the 1 - 10 Relay,
    so if the 1 - 10 Relay is energizing, the bell coil should also be getting
    the current. However, it's possible the bell circuit also goes through a
    set of closed switches in the 1 - 10 Relay and breaks as soon as the 1 - 10
    energizes. I just went through a 1956 United (plays regulation bowling), but
    it's been a while since I went through an United with the 8" pins. I'll look
    to see if what I'm thinking is accurate..
    --- Synchronet 3.17c-Win32 NewsLink 1.112
  • From timnewarkny@timnewarkny@gmail.com to rec.games.pinball on Friday, April 17, 2020 20:20:15
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.pinball

    On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 9:27:16 PM UTC-4, Butch Horwath wrote:
    I know this is a pinball forum but hopefully someone that is familiar with the old United Shuffle Alleys can help. On my 54 11th Frame Shuffle Alley, the bell for strikes and spares has not worked for several years. Basically the coil fell apart and I just let it go until now. I have a schematic for a Delux 11th Frame which is slightly different but I'm assuming most of it is the same. For the bell it shows a 2-24-600 coil. PBR doesn't have that or its closest coil a 2-24-650. Steve Young suggested that I try a Williams B1-26-800 coil. That didn't do the trick. Does anyone know if I need the exact coil for the bell to work or is there something in the 1-10 and 100's relays or possibly something else I should be looking at.

    Thanks
    Butch Horwath
    Butchhorwath@gmail.com
    On a Cascade (1953 United) the circuit for the 1 - 10 Relay and Bell coil
    go through the same circuitry which is through a set of switches in each
    pin Relay. I'd say your machine works the same way, but can't say for sure
    without seeing the schematics. If you want to post the schematics here or
    send me a pm, I'll take a look.
    I may also have a 30V coil for your bell, but the 25 volt should easily
    work, unless Steve sent a 50 volt, but I wouldn't think so..
    --- Synchronet 3.17c-Win32 NewsLink 1.112
  • From John Robertson@spam@flippers.com to rec.games.pinball on Friday, April 17, 2020 22:49:36
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.pinball

    On 2020/04/17 7:26 p.m., Butch Horwath wrote:
    John

    Thanks for the reply. The bell does not ring after scoring a strike or spare. The original coil was a United 2-24-600. Steve Young gave me a Williams B2-26-800 to try. I'm assuming he thought the Williams coil would work.
    I know the 1-10 and 100's relays have something to do with the bell. I'm trying to figure out if anything else is involved. I could try to send pictures of the schematic if you want.

    Thanks again

    Butch


    Hi Butch,

    Did you check the original coil for continuity with an ohm-meter? There
    may be nothing wrong with it, rather the relay switch or stepper switch
    that activates that bell coil may be defective...

    The schematics will show what contacts energize the bell - you need to identify the bell control switch(es)...

    John :-#)#

    --
    (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
    John's Jukes Ltd.
    MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
    (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
    www.flippers.com
    "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
    --- Synchronet 3.17c-Win32 NewsLink 1.112
  • From Butch Horwath@butchhorwath@gmail.com to rec.games.pinball on Saturday, April 18, 2020 08:16:00
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.pinball

    John

    Continuity is ok. The coil has 6.8 ohms which I assume is normal. I need to figure out why it isn't getting any juice.
    --- Synchronet 3.17c-Win32 NewsLink 1.112
  • From John Robertson@spam@flippers.com to rec.games.pinball on Saturday, April 18, 2020 09:52:45
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.pinball

    On 2020/04/18 8:16 a.m., Butch Horwath wrote:
    John

    Continuity is ok. The coil has 6.8 ohms which I assume is normal. I need to figure out why it isn't getting any juice.


    If the original coil has that resistance then yes, it should be good.

    John :-#)#

    --
    (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
    John's Jukes Ltd.
    MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
    (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
    www.flippers.com
    "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
    --- Synchronet 3.17c-Win32 NewsLink 1.112