I have a Funhouse (Actually, 2 of them). Had a lot of problems with getting #1 up and running, but finally got it going - mostly. The ONE remaining problem is that the START button doesn't work. Also, the plumb bob doesn't work. New Rottendog CPU board which works perfectly in the 2nd Funhouse. Swapped the coin door interface boards - BOTH work in the 2nd machine, neither gets the START button working in machine #1. Flippers work fine. Coin door control switches work (all 4). ONE of the coin door coin drop switches works, the other no (could this be a clue to the problem?). Unplugging the coin door has no effect on the START button working or not. Switch is fine and connected properly and tests OK both normally closed and normally open. Have checked the wire connectors to the coin door interface board and they seem OK. IF ONE WAS BAD, which pin(s) would they be? One odd thing that's possibly related is that when in switch edge test, the ALWAYS ON switch randomly comes on and off. I know this switch is on the coin door interface board, but jigging the board and the plugs does not cause the ALWAYS ON switch to deactivate/activate. Have tested the continuity from the switch to the board through the board to the backbox and it buzzes out OK. I've probably spent 10-15 hours with a buddy of mine trying to figure this out with no success. Anyone ever seen this before? What was the problem/solution?
Any insight would be GREATLY appreciated.
Ron Kral
CARGPB #17
On 2021/01/20 1:39 p.m., Ron Kral wrote:--- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
I have a Funhouse (Actually, 2 of them). Had a lot of problems with getting #1 up and running, but finally got it going - mostly. The ONE remaining problem is that the START button doesn't work. Also, the plumb bob doesn't work. New Rottendog CPU board which works perfectly in the 2nd Funhouse. Swapped the coin door interface boards - BOTH work in the 2nd machine, neither gets the START button working in machine #1. Flippers work fine. Coin door control switches work (all 4). ONE of the coin door coin drop switches works, the other no (could this be a clue to the problem?). Unplugging the coin door has no effect on the START button working or not. Switch is fine and connected properly and tests OK both normally closed and normally open. Have checked the wire connectors to the coin door interface board and they seem OK. IF ONE WAS BAD, which pin(s) would they be? One odd thing that's possibly related is that when in switch edge test, the ALWAYS ON switch randomly comes on and off. I know this switch is on the coin door interface board, but jigging the board and the plugs does not cause the ALWAYS ON switch to deactivate/activate. Have tested the continuity from the switch to the board through the board to the backbox and it buzzes out OK. I've probably spent 10-15 hours with a buddy of mine trying to figure this out with no success. Anyone ever seen this before? What was the problem/solution?
Any insight would be GREATLY appreciated.
Ron Kral
CARGPB #17
Hi Ron,
PLEASE break your run-on paragraph into sections - it is very hard to
read and I tend to ignore poorly written requests for help.
I suggest breaking it into separate paragraphs - one paragraph to a
point so these can be replied to.
So, do you mind rewriting the above?
Sorry to be a pain, but you are the one asking for help and I'm trying
to make it easier for both of us to work through your problem...
Thanks!
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
On 2021/01/20 1:39 p.m., Ron Kral wrote:Happy to comply. I REALLY appreciate your help...THANK YOU.
I have a Funhouse (Actually, 2 of them). Had a lot of problems with getting #1 up and running, but finally got it going - mostly. The ONE remaining problem is that the START button doesn't work. Also, the plumb bob doesn't work. New Rottendog CPU board which works perfectly in the 2nd Funhouse. Swapped the coin door interface boards - BOTH work in the 2nd machine, neither gets the START button working in machine #1. Flippers work fine. Coin door control switches work (all 4). ONE of the coin door coin drop switches works, the other no (could this be a clue to the problem?). Unplugging the coin door has no effect on the START button working or not. Switch is fine and connected properly and tests OK both normally closed and normally open. Have checked the wire connectors to the coin door interface board and they seem OK. IF ONE WAS BAD, which pin(s) would they be? One odd thing that's possibly related is that when in switch edge test, the ALWAYS ON switch randomly comes on and off. I know this switch is on the coin door interface board, but jigging the board and the plugs does not cause the ALWAYS ON switch to deactivate/activate. Have tested the continuity from the switch to the board through the board to the backbox and it buzzes out OK. I've probably spent 10-15 hours with a buddy of mine trying to figure this out with no success. Anyone ever seen this before? What was the problem/solution?
Any insight would be GREATLY appreciated.
Ron Kral
CARGPB #17
Hi Ron,
PLEASE break your run-on paragraph into sections - it is very hard to
read and I tend to ignore poorly written requests for help.
I suggest breaking it into separate paragraphs - one paragraph to a
point so these can be replied to.
So, do you mind rewriting the above?
Sorry to be a pain, but you are the one asking for help and I'm trying
to make it easier for both of us to work through your problem...
Thanks!
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
On Wednesday, January 20, 2021 at 5:08:35 PM UTC-5, John Robertson wrote:...
On 2021/01/20 1:39 p.m., Ron Kral wrote:
Happy to comply. I REALLY appreciate your help...THANK YOU.
Sorry for the confusing post. Here's a replay...
NOTE: I have NOT tried your DIODE CPU board jumper test yet. Plan to do so tomorrow. I expect it will start the machine though.
I have a Funhouse (Actually, 2 of them). Had a lot of problems with getting #1 up and running, but finally got it going - mostly.
The ONE remaining problem is that the START button doesn't work. Also, the plumb bob doesn't work. And one of the coin drop switches. The other coin drop switch works OK.
New Rottendog CPU board which works perfectly in the 2nd Funhouse. SO, not the CPU board
Swapped the coin door interface boards - BOTH work in the 2nd machine, neither gets the START button working in machine #1. SO, not the coin interface board.
Flippers work fine. Coin door control switches work fine (all 4). ONE of the coin door coin switches works, the other no (could this be a clue to the problem?).
Unplugging the coin door has no effect on the START button working or not. SO, the coin drop switch failure is probably a different issue.
Start switch tests good both normally closed and normally open and is connected properly. SO, not a switch failure.
Have checked the wire connectors to the coin door interface board and they seem OK. Repunched the wires just in case - no effect. POSSIBLY still an issue.
One odd thing that's possibly related is that when in switch edge test, the ALWAYS ON switch randomly comes on and off. I know this switch is on the coin door interface board, but jiggling the board and the plugs does not cause the ALWAYS ON switch to deactivate/activate. It appears to me that the ALWAYS ON switch turns OFF, then back ON for reasons I do not understand.
At one point, just shaking the cabinet caused the ALWAYS ON to flash.
Have tested the continuity from the start switch to the CPU board through the coin interface board to the backbox and it buzzes out OK.
I've probably spent 10-15 hours with a buddy of mine trying to figure this out with no success. Anyone ever seen this before? What was the problem/solution?
Thanks again John for helping out...
On 2021/01/20 3:56 p.m., Ron Kral wrote:
On Wednesday, January 20, 2021 at 5:08:35 PM UTC-5, John Robertson wrote:...
On 2021/01/20 1:39 p.m., Ron Kral wrote:
Happy to comply. I REALLY appreciate your help...THANK YOU.
Sorry for the confusing post. Here's a replay...
NOTE: I have NOT tried your DIODE CPU board jumper test yet. Plan to do so tomorrow. I expect it will start the machine though.
I have a Funhouse (Actually, 2 of them). Had a lot of problems with getting #1 up and running, but finally got it going - mostly.
The ONE remaining problem is that the START button doesn't work. Also, the plumb bob doesn't work. And one of the coin drop switches. The other coin drop switch works OK.Ah, your game is broken, time to give it to me to get it off your hands. Thanks! (ducking)
New Rottendog CPU board which works perfectly in the 2nd Funhouse. SO, not the CPU board
I understand the theory. EVERY other switch on the machine works.Swapped the coin door interface boards - BOTH work in the 2nd machine, neither gets the START button working in machine #1. SO, not the coin interface board.
Flippers work fine. Coin door control switches work fine (all 4). ONE of the coin door coin switches works, the other no (could this be a clue to the problem?).
Unplugging the coin door has no effect on the START button working or not. SO, the coin drop switch failure is probably a different issue.
Start switch tests good both normally closed and normally open and is connected properly. SO, not a switch failure.Switch test is where you want to be. When one or more switches don't
work you want to pull out the manual and find the Switch Matrix. Note
that the switches are laid out on a (usually 8 x 8) grid. These are
labelled Rows and Columns (you figure out which is which).
Now when in switch test, balls removed from game, and drop targets resetYour comment that there should be zero resistance is interesting - I'll look into that.
and no switch showing as stuck now take the manual and find the
defective switch - in this case the Start Switch. Now using the matrix, check ALL the switches on the same ROW and COLUMN that the Star Switch
is on.
If all the switches on the ROW and COLUMN for the Start Switch all work
then the problem is either the Start Switch is defective or the wiring between it and its neighbours on the ROW and COLUMN is broken.
If a ROW or COLUMN or part thereof don't work, then you have a problem
in the wiring or the MPU board (which you eliminated by trying in
another game). You need to start doing continuity checks...
The "ALWAYS ON" switch is a WPC thing and it's always switch #24.Have checked the wire connectors to the coin door interface board and they seem OK. Repunched the wires just in case - no effect. POSSIBLY still an issue.
One odd thing that's possibly related is that when in switch edge test, the ALWAYS ON switch randomly comes on and off. I know this switch is on the coin door interface board, but jiggling the board and the plugs does not cause the ALWAYS ON switch to deactivate/activate. It appears to me that the ALWAYS ON switch turns OFF, then back ON for reasons I do not understand.
At one point, just shaking the cabinet caused the ALWAYS ON to flash.Can you see which switch number(s) is doing this ALWAYS ON bit? If I am
not mistaken that has to do with the Optos...
It's a help. Thank you. But I'm really hoping someone else who has actually had this exact problem andHave tested the continuity from the start switch to the CPU board through the coin interface board to the backbox and it buzzes out OK.Buzzer checks don't always show real continuity, an ohmmeter is needed
to make sure the resistance is as close to zero as is reasonable...
I've probably spent 10-15 hours with a buddy of mine trying to figure this out with no success. Anyone ever seen this before? What was the problem/solution?
Thanks again John for helping out...
Hope the above steers you a bit in the right direction!
John :-#)#
----- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
On Wednesday, January 20, 2021 at 7:19:09 PM UTC-5, John Robertson wrote:
On 2021/01/20 3:56 p.m., Ron Kral wrote:
On Wednesday, January 20, 2021 at 5:08:35 PM UTC-5, John Robertson wrote:...
On 2021/01/20 1:39 p.m., Ron Kral wrote:
Happy to comply. I REALLY appreciate your help...THANK YOU.
Sorry for the confusing post. Here's a replay...
NOTE: I have NOT tried your DIODE CPU board jumper test yet. Plan to do so tomorrow. I expect it will start the machine though.
I have a Funhouse (Actually, 2 of them). Had a lot of problems with getting #1 up and running, but finally got it going - mostly.
The ONE remaining problem is that the START button doesn't work. Also, the plumb bob doesn't work. And one of the coin drop switches. The other coin drop switch works OK.Ah, your game is broken, time to give it to me to get it off your hands. Thanks! (ducking)
New Rottendog CPU board which works perfectly in the 2nd Funhouse. SO, not the CPU board
Ive owned a dozen or so funhouses over my flippin days..Does the start button light up? When you push start does it do its thump,thump,thump error on the alpha numeric display?Swapped the coin door interface boards - BOTH work in the 2nd machine, neither gets the START button working in machine #1. SO, not the coin interface board.
Flippers work fine. Coin door control switches work fine (all 4). ONE of the coin door coin switches works, the other no (could this be a clue to the problem?).
Unplugging the coin door has no effect on the START button working or not. SO, the coin drop switch failure is probably a different issue.
I understand the theory. EVERY other switch on the machine works.Start switch tests good both normally closed and normally open and is connected properly. SO, not a switch failure.Switch test is where you want to be. When one or more switches don't
work you want to pull out the manual and find the Switch Matrix. Note
that the switches are laid out on a (usually 8 x 8) grid. These are labelled Rows and Columns (you figure out which is which).
These two are Column 1, Row 3 and Column 1 Row 4. ALL the other switches
in that column work and ALL the other switches in Row 3 and 4 test good according to the diagnostics. These two are in the middle of the column (but according
to what I've read, the switch daisy chain is often not in their numerical order presented
so these two may really be at the end. THAT SAID, the other switches in those column/rows
are on the playfield, not in the "cabinet" (as defined by the manual). The Column 1
switches on the playfield are in a loop back to the backbox. These two seem to be on their
own separate home run wire back to the backbox.
Now when in switch test, balls removed from game, and drop targets reset and no switch showing as stuck now take the manual and find the
defective switch - in this case the Start Switch. Now using the matrix, check ALL the switches on the same ROW and COLUMN that the Star Switch
is on.
If all the switches on the ROW and COLUMN for the Start Switch all work then the problem is either the Start Switch is defective or the wiring between it and its neighbours on the ROW and COLUMN is broken.
If a ROW or COLUMN or part thereof don't work, then you have a problemYour comment that there should be zero resistance is interesting - I'll look into that.
in the wiring or the MPU board (which you eliminated by trying in
another game). You need to start doing continuity checks...
I've been using a quality Fluke multimeter set to the DIODE setting which generates
a sound when shorted and continuity is detected.
Have checked the wire connectors to the coin door interface board and they seem OK. Repunched the wires just in case - no effect. POSSIBLY still an issue.
One odd thing that's possibly related is that when in switch edge test, the ALWAYS ON switch randomly comes on and off. I know this switch is on the coin door interface board, but jiggling the board and the plugs does not cause the ALWAYS ON switch to deactivate/activate. It appears to me that the ALWAYS ON switch turns OFF, then back ON for reasons I do not understand.
The "ALWAYS ON" switch is a WPC thing and it's always switch #24.At one point, just shaking the cabinet caused the ALWAYS ON to flash.Can you see which switch number(s) is doing this ALWAYS ON bit? If I am not mistaken that has to do with the Optos...
It's basically a short-circuit on the coin interface board.
The CPU interrogates the ALWAYS ON as a gross check to make sure the switch matrix plugs are connected and up and running. If ALWAYS ON is, in fact, OFF, the
CPU knows something is seriously wrong.
Have tested the continuity from the start switch to the CPU board through the coin interface board to the backbox and it buzzes out OK.Buzzer checks don't always show real continuity, an ohmmeter is needed
to make sure the resistance is as close to zero as is reasonable...
I've probably spent 10-15 hours with a buddy of mine trying to figure this out with no success. Anyone ever seen this before? What was the problem/solution?
Thanks again John for helping out...
Hope the above steers you a bit in the right direction!It's a help. Thank you. But I'm really hoping someone else who has actually had this exact problem and
John :-#)#
can tell me what they did to fix it. It seems to be specific to the start button and plumb bob in the cabinet
as opposed to a "normal" problem with a switch matrix broken wire in a row or column.
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
On Wednesday, January 20, 2021 at 6:18:17 PM UTC-7, Ron Kral wrote:
On Wednesday, January 20, 2021 at 7:19:09 PM UTC-5, John Robertson wrote:
On 2021/01/20 3:56 p.m., Ron Kral wrote:
On Wednesday, January 20, 2021 at 5:08:35 PM UTC-5, John Robertson wrote:...
On 2021/01/20 1:39 p.m., Ron Kral wrote:
Happy to comply. I REALLY appreciate your help...THANK YOU.
Sorry for the confusing post. Here's a replay...
NOTE: I have NOT tried your DIODE CPU board jumper test yet. Plan to do so tomorrow. I expect it will start the machine though.
I have a Funhouse (Actually, 2 of them). Had a lot of problems with getting #1 up and running, but finally got it going - mostly.
The ONE remaining problem is that the START button doesn't work. Also, the plumb bob doesn't work. And one of the coin drop switches. The other coin drop switch works OK.Ah, your game is broken, time to give it to me to get it off your hands. Thanks! (ducking)
New Rottendog CPU board which works perfectly in the 2nd Funhouse. SO, not the CPU board
Yes, the START button IS lit.Swapped the coin door interface boards - BOTH work in the 2nd machine, neither gets the START button working in machine #1. SO, not the coin interface board.
Flippers work fine. Coin door control switches work fine (all 4). ONE of the coin door coin switches works, the other no (could this be a clue to the problem?).
Unplugging the coin door has no effect on the START button working or not. SO, the coin drop switch failure is probably a different issue.
I understand the theory. EVERY other switch on the machine works.Start switch tests good both normally closed and normally open and is connected properly. SO, not a switch failure.Switch test is where you want to be. When one or more switches don't work you want to pull out the manual and find the Switch Matrix. Note that the switches are laid out on a (usually 8 x 8) grid. These are labelled Rows and Columns (you figure out which is which).
These two are Column 1, Row 3 and Column 1 Row 4. ALL the other switches in that column work and ALL the other switches in Row 3 and 4 test good according to the diagnostics. These two are in the middle of the column (but according
to what I've read, the switch daisy chain is often not in their numerical order presented
so these two may really be at the end. THAT SAID, the other switches in those column/rows
are on the playfield, not in the "cabinet" (as defined by the manual). The Column 1
switches on the playfield are in a loop back to the backbox. These two seem to be on their
own separate home run wire back to the backbox.
Now when in switch test, balls removed from game, and drop targets reset and no switch showing as stuck now take the manual and find the defective switch - in this case the Start Switch. Now using the matrix, check ALL the switches on the same ROW and COLUMN that the Star Switch is on.
If all the switches on the ROW and COLUMN for the Start Switch all work then the problem is either the Start Switch is defective or the wiring between it and its neighbours on the ROW and COLUMN is broken.
If a ROW or COLUMN or part thereof don't work, then you have a problem in the wiring or the MPU board (which you eliminated by trying in another game). You need to start doing continuity checks...Your comment that there should be zero resistance is interesting - I'll look into that.
I've been using a quality Fluke multimeter set to the DIODE setting which generates
a sound when shorted and continuity is detected.
Have checked the wire connectors to the coin door interface board and they seem OK. Repunched the wires just in case - no effect. POSSIBLY still an issue.
One odd thing that's possibly related is that when in switch edge test, the ALWAYS ON switch randomly comes on and off. I know this switch is on the coin door interface board, but jiggling the board and the plugs does not cause the ALWAYS ON switch to deactivate/activate. It appears to me that the ALWAYS ON switch turns OFF, then back ON for reasons I do not understand.
The "ALWAYS ON" switch is a WPC thing and it's always switch #24.At one point, just shaking the cabinet caused the ALWAYS ON to flash.Can you see which switch number(s) is doing this ALWAYS ON bit? If I am not mistaken that has to do with the Optos...
It's basically a short-circuit on the coin interface board.
The CPU interrogates the ALWAYS ON as a gross check to make sure the switch
matrix plugs are connected and up and running. If ALWAYS ON is, in fact, OFF, the
CPU knows something is seriously wrong.
Have tested the continuity from the start switch to the CPU board through the coin interface board to the backbox and it buzzes out OK.Buzzer checks don't always show real continuity, an ohmmeter is needed to make sure the resistance is as close to zero as is reasonable...
I've probably spent 10-15 hours with a buddy of mine trying to figure this out with no success. Anyone ever seen this before? What was the problem/solution?
Thanks again John for helping out...
Hope the above steers you a bit in the right direction!It's a help. Thank you. But I'm really hoping someone else who has actually had this exact problem and
John :-#)#
can tell me what they did to fix it. It seems to be specific to the start button and plumb bob in the cabinet
as opposed to a "normal" problem with a switch matrix broken wire in a row or column.
Ive owned a dozen or so funhouses over my flippin days..Does the start button light up? When you push start does it do its thump,thump,thump error on the alpha numeric display?--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
On Thursday, January 21, 2021 at 1:44:15 PM UTC-5, diana anderson wrote:
On Wednesday, January 20, 2021 at 6:18:17 PM UTC-7, Ron Kral wrote:
On Wednesday, January 20, 2021 at 7:19:09 PM UTC-5, John Robertson wrote:
On 2021/01/20 3:56 p.m., Ron Kral wrote:
On Wednesday, January 20, 2021 at 5:08:35 PM UTC-5, John Robertson wrote:...
On 2021/01/20 1:39 p.m., Ron Kral wrote:
Happy to comply. I REALLY appreciate your help...THANK YOU.
Sorry for the confusing post. Here's a replay...
NOTE: I have NOT tried your DIODE CPU board jumper test yet. Plan to do so tomorrow. I expect it will start the machine though.
I have a Funhouse (Actually, 2 of them). Had a lot of problems with getting #1 up and running, but finally got it going - mostly.
The ONE remaining problem is that the START button doesn't work. Also, the plumb bob doesn't work. And one of the coin drop switches. The other coin drop switch works OK.Ah, your game is broken, time to give it to me to get it off your hands.
Thanks! (ducking)
New Rottendog CPU board which works perfectly in the 2nd Funhouse. SO, not the CPU board
--- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113Swapped the coin door interface boards - BOTH work in the 2nd machine, neither gets the START button working in machine #1. SO, not the coin interface board.
Flippers work fine. Coin door control switches work fine (all 4). ONE of the coin door coin switches works, the other no (could this be a clue to the problem?).
Unplugging the coin door has no effect on the START button working or not. SO, the coin drop switch failure is probably a different issue.
I understand the theory. EVERY other switch on the machine works.Start switch tests good both normally closed and normally open and is connected properly. SO, not a switch failure.Switch test is where you want to be. When one or more switches don't work you want to pull out the manual and find the Switch Matrix. Note that the switches are laid out on a (usually 8 x 8) grid. These are labelled Rows and Columns (you figure out which is which).
These two are Column 1, Row 3 and Column 1 Row 4. ALL the other switches in that column work and ALL the other switches in Row 3 and 4 test good according to the diagnostics. These two are in the middle of the column (but according
to what I've read, the switch daisy chain is often not in their numerical order presented
so these two may really be at the end. THAT SAID, the other switches in those column/rows
are on the playfield, not in the "cabinet" (as defined by the manual). The Column 1
switches on the playfield are in a loop back to the backbox. These two seem to be on their
own separate home run wire back to the backbox.
Now when in switch test, balls removed from game, and drop targets reset
and no switch showing as stuck now take the manual and find the defective switch - in this case the Start Switch. Now using the matrix,
check ALL the switches on the same ROW and COLUMN that the Star Switch is on.
If all the switches on the ROW and COLUMN for the Start Switch all work
then the problem is either the Start Switch is defective or the wiring between it and its neighbours on the ROW and COLUMN is broken.
If a ROW or COLUMN or part thereof don't work, then you have a problem in the wiring or the MPU board (which you eliminated by trying in another game). You need to start doing continuity checks...Your comment that there should be zero resistance is interesting - I'll look into that.
I've been using a quality Fluke multimeter set to the DIODE setting which generates
a sound when shorted and continuity is detected.
Have checked the wire connectors to the coin door interface board and they seem OK. Repunched the wires just in case - no effect. POSSIBLY still an issue.
One odd thing that's possibly related is that when in switch edge test, the ALWAYS ON switch randomly comes on and off. I know this switch is on the coin door interface board, but jiggling the board and the plugs does not cause the ALWAYS ON switch to deactivate/activate. It appears to me that the ALWAYS ON switch turns OFF, then back ON for reasons I do not understand.
The "ALWAYS ON" switch is a WPC thing and it's always switch #24.At one point, just shaking the cabinet caused the ALWAYS ON to flash.Can you see which switch number(s) is doing this ALWAYS ON bit? If I am
not mistaken that has to do with the Optos...
It's basically a short-circuit on the coin interface board.
The CPU interrogates the ALWAYS ON as a gross check to make sure the switch
matrix plugs are connected and up and running. If ALWAYS ON is, in fact, OFF, the
CPU knows something is seriously wrong.
Have tested the continuity from the start switch to the CPU board through the coin interface board to the backbox and it buzzes out OK.Buzzer checks don't always show real continuity, an ohmmeter is needed to make sure the resistance is as close to zero as is reasonable...
I've probably spent 10-15 hours with a buddy of mine trying to figure this out with no success. Anyone ever seen this before? What was the problem/solution?
Thanks again John for helping out...
Hope the above steers you a bit in the right direction!It's a help. Thank you. But I'm really hoping someone else who has actually had this exact problem and
John :-#)#
can tell me what they did to fix it. It seems to be specific to the start button and plumb bob in the cabinet
as opposed to a "normal" problem with a switch matrix broken wire in a row or column.
Yes, the START button IS lit.Ive owned a dozen or so funhouses over my flippin days..Does the start button light up? When you push start does it do its thump,thump,thump error on the alpha numeric display?--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
However, it does NOT register either for game play OR in Switch Edge test
On Thursday, January 21, 2021 at 1:44:15 PM UTC-5, diana anderson wrote:
On Wednesday, January 20, 2021 at 6:18:17 PM UTC-7, Ron Kral wrote:
On Wednesday, January 20, 2021 at 7:19:09 PM UTC-5, John Robertson wrote:
On 2021/01/20 3:56 p.m., Ron Kral wrote:
On Wednesday, January 20, 2021 at 5:08:35 PM UTC-5, John Robertson wrote:...
On 2021/01/20 1:39 p.m., Ron Kral wrote:
Happy to comply. I REALLY appreciate your help...THANK YOU.
Sorry for the confusing post. Here's a replay...
NOTE: I have NOT tried your DIODE CPU board jumper test yet. Plan to do so tomorrow. I expect it will start the machine though.
I have a Funhouse (Actually, 2 of them). Had a lot of problems with getting #1 up and running, but finally got it going - mostly.
The ONE remaining problem is that the START button doesn't work. Also, the plumb bob doesn't work. And one of the coin drop switches. The other coin drop switch works OK.Ah, your game is broken, time to give it to me to get it off your hands.
Thanks! (ducking)
New Rottendog CPU board which works perfectly in the 2nd Funhouse. SO, not the CPU board
--- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113Swapped the coin door interface boards - BOTH work in the 2nd machine, neither gets the START button working in machine #1. SO, not the coin interface board.
Flippers work fine. Coin door control switches work fine (all 4). ONE of the coin door coin switches works, the other no (could this be a clue to the problem?).
Unplugging the coin door has no effect on the START button working or not. SO, the coin drop switch failure is probably a different issue.
I understand the theory. EVERY other switch on the machine works.Start switch tests good both normally closed and normally open and is connected properly. SO, not a switch failure.Switch test is where you want to be. When one or more switches don't work you want to pull out the manual and find the Switch Matrix. Note that the switches are laid out on a (usually 8 x 8) grid. These are labelled Rows and Columns (you figure out which is which).
These two are Column 1, Row 3 and Column 1 Row 4. ALL the other switches in that column work and ALL the other switches in Row 3 and 4 test good according to the diagnostics. These two are in the middle of the column (but according
to what I've read, the switch daisy chain is often not in their numerical order presented
so these two may really be at the end. THAT SAID, the other switches in those column/rows
are on the playfield, not in the "cabinet" (as defined by the manual). The Column 1
switches on the playfield are in a loop back to the backbox. These two seem to be on their
own separate home run wire back to the backbox.
Now when in switch test, balls removed from game, and drop targets reset
and no switch showing as stuck now take the manual and find the defective switch - in this case the Start Switch. Now using the matrix,
check ALL the switches on the same ROW and COLUMN that the Star Switch is on.
If all the switches on the ROW and COLUMN for the Start Switch all work
then the problem is either the Start Switch is defective or the wiring between it and its neighbours on the ROW and COLUMN is broken.
If a ROW or COLUMN or part thereof don't work, then you have a problem in the wiring or the MPU board (which you eliminated by trying in another game). You need to start doing continuity checks...Your comment that there should be zero resistance is interesting - I'll look into that.
I've been using a quality Fluke multimeter set to the DIODE setting which generates
a sound when shorted and continuity is detected.
Have checked the wire connectors to the coin door interface board and they seem OK. Repunched the wires just in case - no effect. POSSIBLY still an issue.
One odd thing that's possibly related is that when in switch edge test, the ALWAYS ON switch randomly comes on and off. I know this switch is on the coin door interface board, but jiggling the board and the plugs does not cause the ALWAYS ON switch to deactivate/activate. It appears to me that the ALWAYS ON switch turns OFF, then back ON for reasons I do not understand.
The "ALWAYS ON" switch is a WPC thing and it's always switch #24.At one point, just shaking the cabinet caused the ALWAYS ON to flash.Can you see which switch number(s) is doing this ALWAYS ON bit? If I am
not mistaken that has to do with the Optos...
It's basically a short-circuit on the coin interface board.
The CPU interrogates the ALWAYS ON as a gross check to make sure the switch
matrix plugs are connected and up and running. If ALWAYS ON is, in fact, OFF, the
CPU knows something is seriously wrong.
Have tested the continuity from the start switch to the CPU board through the coin interface board to the backbox and it buzzes out OK.Buzzer checks don't always show real continuity, an ohmmeter is needed to make sure the resistance is as close to zero as is reasonable...
I've probably spent 10-15 hours with a buddy of mine trying to figure this out with no success. Anyone ever seen this before? What was the problem/solution?
Thanks again John for helping out...
Hope the above steers you a bit in the right direction!It's a help. Thank you. But I'm really hoping someone else who has actually had this exact problem and
John :-#)#
can tell me what they did to fix it. It seems to be specific to the start button and plumb bob in the cabinet
as opposed to a "normal" problem with a switch matrix broken wire in a row or column.
Yes, the START button IS lit.Ive owned a dozen or so funhouses over my flippin days..Does the start button light up? When you push start does it do its thump,thump,thump error on the alpha numeric display?--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
However, it does NOT register either for game play OR in Switch Edge test ..Take all 3 balls out and maunally press down on the 3 connectors in the trough and make sure you "hear" the switchs close and then fire up a game bet it works..if 1 switch is broke the game will never start
That's *not* the case for WPC-era games; if the game thinks it is missing a pinball somewhere it will display a diagnostic message to that effect when the Start button is pressed.Yes, the START button IS lit.Take all 3 balls out and maunally press down on the 3 connectors in the trough and make sure you "hear" the switchs close and then fire up a game bet it works..if 1 switch is broke the game will never start
However, it does NOT register either for game play OR in Switch Edge test
On Saturday, January 23, 2021 at 2:38:51 PM UTC-5, diana anderson wrote:Nope..I disagree..I've been in the the buiness 30+ and the problem lies within the ball throh and/or start button schute.. like i said check and make sure all 3 switches are working just because there "clicking" dont give it a green light as ive had the same exact problem on some of my pins in the past the problem lies in that area,also check on that diode it may be hanging
That's *not* the case for WPC-era games; if the game thinks it is missing a pinball somewhere it will display a diagnostic message to that effect when the Start button is pressed.Yes, the START button IS lit.Take all 3 balls out and maunally press down on the 3 connectors in the trough and make sure you "hear" the switchs close and then fire up a game bet it works..if 1 switch is broke the game will never start
However, it does NOT register either for game play OR in Switch Edge test
To the op: check the orientation of the diode on the Start button (there should be one, as the Start button is part of the 8x8 switch matrix), or just replace the diode, being sure to observe proper polarity (green wire to center switch terminal, banded end of diode to the "button" end of the switch (where the actuator mounts), non-banded diode end and white wire to opposite end. An open diode is fairly rare, but it does happen on occasion.
As for the switch 24 issue, I'd really suspect an intermittent connection in the row (4, white/yellow) or column (2, green/red) wiring, either an internal fracture of the wire strands leading from the coin door interface board or a bad connection at the connector at either end of the cabinet wiring harness. It's rare, but I've seen a couple of cases in my 20+ years of working on WPC-era games.
Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic
On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 7:40:42 AM UTC-7, Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic wrote:You're welcome to disagree, but you're still wrong where it concerns Funhouse. If you don't believe me check page 1-42 of the Funhouse manual. I can't copy/paste from the crappy PDF version of the manual I have, but I quote verbatim:
On Saturday, January 23, 2021 at 2:38:51 PM UTC-5, diana anderson wrote:
That's *not* the case for WPC-era games; if the game thinks it is missing a pinball somewhere it will display a diagnostic message to that effect when the Start button is pressed.Yes, the START button IS lit.Take all 3 balls out and maunally press down on the 3 connectors in the trough and make sure you "hear" the switchs close and then fire up a game bet it works..if 1 switch is broke the game will never start
However, it does NOT register either for game play OR in Switch Edge test
To the op: check the orientation of the diode on the Start button (there should be one, as the Start button is part of the 8x8 switch matrix), or just replace the diode, being sure to observe proper polarity (green wire to center switch terminal, banded end of diode to the "button" end of the switch (where the actuator mounts), non-banded diode end and white wire to opposite end. An open diode is fairly rare, but it does happen on occasion.
As for the switch 24 issue, I'd really suspect an intermittent connection in the row (4, white/yellow) or column (2, green/red) wiring, either an internal fracture of the wire strands leading from the coin door interface board or a bad connection at the connector at either end of the cabinet wiring harness. It's rare, but I've seen a couple of cases in my 20+ years of working on WPC-era games.
Joseph "Tony" DziedzicNope..I disagree..I've been in the the buiness 30+ and the problem lies within the ball throh and/or start button schute.. like i said check and make sure all 3 switches are working just because there "clicking" dont give it a green light as ive had the same exact problem on some of my pins in the past the problem lies in that area,also check on that diode it may be hanging
On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 4:49:24 PM UTC-5, diana anderson wrote:Tony is correct here.The WPC games do not need the full complement of balls to start..
On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 7:40:42 AM UTC-7, Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic wrote:
On Saturday, January 23, 2021 at 2:38:51 PM UTC-5, diana anderson wrote:
That's *not* the case for WPC-era games; if the game thinks it is missing a pinball somewhere it will display a diagnostic message to that effect when the Start button is pressed.Yes, the START button IS lit.Take all 3 balls out and maunally press down on the 3 connectors in the trough and make sure you "hear" the switchs close and then fire up a game bet it works..if 1 switch is broke the game will never start
However, it does NOT register either for game play OR in Switch Edge test
To the op: check the orientation of the diode on the Start button (there should be one, as the Start button is part of the 8x8 switch matrix), or just replace the diode, being sure to observe proper polarity (green wire to center switch terminal, banded end of diode to the "button" end of the switch (where the actuator mounts), non-banded diode end and white wire to opposite end. An open diode is fairly rare, but it does happen on occasion.
As for the switch 24 issue, I'd really suspect an intermittent connection in the row (4, white/yellow) or column (2, green/red) wiring, either an internal fracture of the wire strands leading from the coin door interface board or a bad connection at the connector at either end of the cabinet wiring harness. It's rare, but I've seen a couple of cases in my 20+ years of working on WPC-era games.
You're welcome to disagree, but you're still wrong where it concerns Funhouse. If you don't believe me check page 1-42 of the Funhouse manual. I can't copy/paste from the crappy PDF version of the manual I have, but I quote verbatim:Joseph "Tony" DziedzicNope..I disagree..I've been in the the buiness 30+ and the problem lies within the ball throh and/or start button schute.. like i said check and make sure all 3 switches are working just because there "clicking" dont give it a green light as ive had the same exact problem on some of my pins in the past the problem lies in that area,also check on that diode it may be hanging
"FUNHOUSE normally uses three balls; however, it will operate with one or two balls." The only way it can operate with less than three balls is if it will start with less than three balls in the game, and there is no adjustment in the adjustments menu to specify how many balls are necessary to operate. After WPC games run through some number of ball search cycles on startup they eventually time out and enter play mode.
And FWIW, the original poster mentioned they had already entered the diagnostics menus via the "Begin Test" button, and if you check the manual page you will see the game software will display a "PINBALL MISSING" message if it fails to detect a sufficient combination of trough and/or lock switches closed. They may have failed to mention that, but it seems unlikely given the large amount of information they provided.
You are correct that Bally solid-state games that featured multi-ball operation (e.g., Centaur, Medusa) *do* require all the trough switches to be operating properly for the start button to function, and I believe that was also the case for Williams System 11 games. It is definitely NOT the case with WPC-era games.
Tony
On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 7:06:10 PM UTC-5, Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic wrote:Ron, the next thing I'd try is disconnecting the green/brown wire at the start button switch and running a jumper wire from the start button switch terminal to ANY green/brown wire on the bottom of the playfield, and seeing if that resolves the start button issue. If not, replace the green/brown wire at the start button switch and try the same jumper trick, this time using the white/orange wire. This should isolate which of the two wires is the issue. If you have a spare 0.156" header with at least 8 pins, you could try the same technique, this time pulling J6 from the coin door interface board and using a pair of jumper wires to bring the green/brown wire from header pin 7 or 8 and the orange/white from header pin 2. (You'd need to pull J6 while the game is powered on otherwise you'll not be able to enter diagnostics mode, but if you have credits on the game or it's set on free play that won't matter.)
On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 4:49:24 PM UTC-5, diana anderson wrote:
On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 7:40:42 AM UTC-7, Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic wrote:
On Saturday, January 23, 2021 at 2:38:51 PM UTC-5, diana anderson wrote:
That's *not* the case for WPC-era games; if the game thinks it is missing a pinball somewhere it will display a diagnostic message to that effect when the Start button is pressed.Yes, the START button IS lit.Take all 3 balls out and maunally press down on the 3 connectors in the trough and make sure you "hear" the switchs close and then fire up a game bet it works..if 1 switch is broke the game will never start
However, it does NOT register either for game play OR in Switch Edge test
To the op: check the orientation of the diode on the Start button (there should be one, as the Start button is part of the 8x8 switch matrix), or just replace the diode, being sure to observe proper polarity (green wire to center switch terminal, banded end of diode to the "button" end of the switch (where the actuator mounts), non-banded diode end and white wire to opposite end. An open diode is fairly rare, but it does happen on occasion.
As for the switch 24 issue, I'd really suspect an intermittent connection in the row (4, white/yellow) or column (2, green/red) wiring, either an internal fracture of the wire strands leading from the coin door interface board or a bad connection at the connector at either end of the cabinet wiring harness. It's rare, but I've seen a couple of cases in my 20+ years of working on WPC-era games.
You're welcome to disagree, but you're still wrong where it concerns Funhouse. If you don't believe me check page 1-42 of the Funhouse manual. I can't copy/paste from the crappy PDF version of the manual I have, but I quote verbatim:Joseph "Tony" DziedzicNope..I disagree..I've been in the the buiness 30+ and the problem lies within the ball throh and/or start button schute.. like i said check and make sure all 3 switches are working just because there "clicking" dont give it a green light as ive had the same exact problem on some of my pins in the past the problem lies in that area,also check on that diode it may be hanging
"FUNHOUSE normally uses three balls; however, it will operate with one or two balls." The only way it can operate with less than three balls is if it will start with less than three balls in the game, and there is no adjustment in the adjustments menu to specify how many balls are necessary to operate. After WPC games run through some number of ball search cycles on startup they eventually time out and enter play mode.
And FWIW, the original poster mentioned they had already entered the diagnostics menus via the "Begin Test" button, and if you check the manual page you will see the game software will display a "PINBALL MISSING" message if it fails to detect a sufficient combination of trough and/or lock switches closed. They may have failed to mention that, but it seems unlikely given the large amount of information they provided.
You are correct that Bally solid-state games that featured multi-ball operation (e.g., Centaur, Medusa) *do* require all the trough switches to be operating properly for the start button to function, and I believe that was also the case for Williams System 11 games. It is definitely NOT the case with WPC-era games.
TonyTony is correct here.The WPC games do not need the full complement of balls to start..
Earlier machines may, but starting with Funhouse, the game WILL start without all the balls.
ALSO, since I could get into diagnostic mode, I tested EVERY switch on the machine,
The ALL work (including the trough) EXCEPT for the START button, the PLUMB BOB
and the left hand COIN DROP SWITCH. Every other switch on the respective row/column
work. (Start and Plumb Bob are both COLUMN 1)
I ran an additional test as suggested by John Robertson and put a diode across pins
J206.1 and J209.3 (essentially performing what the START button is supposed to do)
AND THE GAME STARTS. So as Tony stated earlier, the problem lies somewhere between
the header pins on the CPU board and the start switch itself. HAS to be a wire or connection
since the COIN DOOR INTERFACE BOARD worked fine in another Funhouse. BTW, the DIODE for
the START button is ON the COIN DOOR INTERFACE BOARD so a bad/detached/missing diode
is NOT the problem.
I have to say I really -do- appreciate all the commentary and suggestions though.
Ron Kral
On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 8:13:38 PM UTC-5, Ron Kral wrote:OK, problem solved. As Tony suggested, we ran a wire from the START switch pole to a diode and connected
On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 7:06:10 PM UTC-5, Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic wrote:
On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 4:49:24 PM UTC-5, diana anderson wrote:
On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 7:40:42 AM UTC-7, Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic wrote:
On Saturday, January 23, 2021 at 2:38:51 PM UTC-5, diana anderson wrote:
That's *not* the case for WPC-era games; if the game thinks it is missing a pinball somewhere it will display a diagnostic message to that effect when the Start button is pressed.Yes, the START button IS lit.Take all 3 balls out and maunally press down on the 3 connectors in the trough and make sure you "hear" the switchs close and then fire up a game bet it works..if 1 switch is broke the game will never start
However, it does NOT register either for game play OR in Switch Edge test
To the op: check the orientation of the diode on the Start button (there should be one, as the Start button is part of the 8x8 switch matrix), or just replace the diode, being sure to observe proper polarity (green wire to center switch terminal, banded end of diode to the "button" end of the switch (where the actuator mounts), non-banded diode end and white wire to opposite end. An open diode is fairly rare, but it does happen on occasion.
As for the switch 24 issue, I'd really suspect an intermittent connection in the row (4, white/yellow) or column (2, green/red) wiring, either an internal fracture of the wire strands leading from the coin door interface board or a bad connection at the connector at either end of the cabinet wiring harness. It's rare, but I've seen a couple of cases in my 20+ years of working on WPC-era games.
You're welcome to disagree, but you're still wrong where it concerns Funhouse. If you don't believe me check page 1-42 of the Funhouse manual. I can't copy/paste from the crappy PDF version of the manual I have, but I quote verbatim:Joseph "Tony" DziedzicNope..I disagree..I've been in the the buiness 30+ and the problem lies within the ball throh and/or start button schute.. like i said check and make sure all 3 switches are working just because there "clicking" dont give it a green light as ive had the same exact problem on some of my pins in the past the problem lies in that area,also check on that diode it may be hanging
"FUNHOUSE normally uses three balls; however, it will operate with one or two balls." The only way it can operate with less than three balls is if it will start with less than three balls in the game, and there is no adjustment in the adjustments menu to specify how many balls are necessary to operate. After WPC games run through some number of ball search cycles on startup they eventually time out and enter play mode.
And FWIW, the original poster mentioned they had already entered the diagnostics menus via the "Begin Test" button, and if you check the manual page you will see the game software will display a "PINBALL MISSING" message if it fails to detect a sufficient combination of trough and/or lock switches closed. They may have failed to mention that, but it seems unlikely given the large amount of information they provided.
You are correct that Bally solid-state games that featured multi-ball operation (e.g., Centaur, Medusa) *do* require all the trough switches to be operating properly for the start button to function, and I believe that was also the case for Williams System 11 games. It is definitely NOT the case with WPC-era games.
TonyTony is correct here.The WPC games do not need the full complement of balls to start..
Earlier machines may, but starting with Funhouse, the game WILL start without all the balls.
ALSO, since I could get into diagnostic mode, I tested EVERY switch on the machine,
The ALL work (including the trough) EXCEPT for the START button, the PLUMB BOB
and the left hand COIN DROP SWITCH. Every other switch on the respective row/column
work. (Start and Plumb Bob are both COLUMN 1)
I ran an additional test as suggested by John Robertson and put a diode across pins
J206.1 and J209.3 (essentially performing what the START button is supposed to do)
AND THE GAME STARTS. So as Tony stated earlier, the problem lies somewhere between
the header pins on the CPU board and the start switch itself. HAS to be a wire or connection
since the COIN DOOR INTERFACE BOARD worked fine in another Funhouse. BTW, the DIODE for
the START button is ON the COIN DOOR INTERFACE BOARD so a bad/detached/missing diode
is NOT the problem.
I have to say I really -do- appreciate all the commentary and suggestions though.Ron, the next thing I'd try is disconnecting the green/brown wire at the start button switch and running a jumper wire from the start button switch terminal to ANY green/brown wire on the bottom of the playfield, and seeing if that resolves the start button issue. If not, replace the green/brown wire at the start button switch and try the same jumper trick, this time using the white/orange wire. This should isolate which of the two wires is the issue. If you have a spare 0.156" header with at least 8 pins, you could try the same technique, this time pulling J6 from the coin door interface board and using a pair of jumper wires to bring the green/brown wire from header pin 7 or 8 and the orange/white from header pin 2. (You'd need to pull J6 while the game is powered on otherwise you'll not be able to enter diagnostics mode, but if you have credits on the game or it's set on free play that won't matter.)
Ron Kral
Tony
On Monday, January 25, 2021 at 11:58:05 AM UTC-5, Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic wrote:
On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 8:13:38 PM UTC-5, Ron Kral wrote:
On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 7:06:10 PM UTC-5, Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic wrote:Ron, the next thing I'd try is disconnecting the green/brown wire at the start button switch and running a jumper wire from the start button switch terminal to ANY green/brown wire on the bottom of the playfield, and seeing if that resolves the start button issue. If not, replace the green/brown wire at the start button switch and try the same jumper trick, this time using the white/orange wire. This should isolate which of the two wires is the issue. If you have a spare 0.156" header with at least 8 pins, you could try the same technique, this time pulling J6 from the coin door interface board and using a pair of jumper wires to bring the green/brown wire from header pin 7 or 8 and the orange/white from header pin 2. (You'd need to pull J6 while the game is powered on otherwise you'll not be able to enter diagnostics mode, but if you have credits on the game or it's set on free play that won't matter.)
On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 4:49:24 PM UTC-5, diana anderson wrote: >>>>> On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 7:40:42 AM UTC-7, Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic wrote:Tony is correct here.The WPC games do not need the full complement of balls to start..
You're welcome to disagree, but you're still wrong where it concerns Funhouse. If you don't believe me check page 1-42 of the Funhouse manual. I can't copy/paste from the crappy PDF version of the manual I have, but I quote verbatim:On Saturday, January 23, 2021 at 2:38:51 PM UTC-5, diana anderson wrote: >>>>>>>> Yes, the START button IS lit.Nope..I disagree..I've been in the the buiness 30+ and the problem lies within the ball throh and/or start button schute.. like i said check and make sure all 3 switches are working just because there "clicking" dont give it a green light as ive had the same exact problem on some of my pins in the past the problem lies in that area,also check on that diode it may be hanging
That's *not* the case for WPC-era games; if the game thinks it is missing a pinball somewhere it will display a diagnostic message to that effect when the Start button is pressed.However, it does NOT register either for game play OR in Switch Edge testTake all 3 balls out and maunally press down on the 3 connectors in the trough and make sure you "hear" the switchs close and then fire up a game bet it works..if 1 switch is broke the game will never start
To the op: check the orientation of the diode on the Start button (there should be one, as the Start button is part of the 8x8 switch matrix), or just replace the diode, being sure to observe proper polarity (green wire to center switch terminal, banded end of diode to the "button" end of the switch (where the actuator mounts), non-banded diode end and white wire to opposite end. An open diode is fairly rare, but it does happen on occasion.
As for the switch 24 issue, I'd really suspect an intermittent connection in the row (4, white/yellow) or column (2, green/red) wiring, either an internal fracture of the wire strands leading from the coin door interface board or a bad connection at the connector at either end of the cabinet wiring harness. It's rare, but I've seen a couple of cases in my 20+ years of working on WPC-era games.
Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic
"FUNHOUSE normally uses three balls; however, it will operate with one or two balls." The only way it can operate with less than three balls is if it will start with less than three balls in the game, and there is no adjustment in the adjustments menu to specify how many balls are necessary to operate. After WPC games run through some number of ball search cycles on startup they eventually time out and enter play mode.
And FWIW, the original poster mentioned they had already entered the diagnostics menus via the "Begin Test" button, and if you check the manual page you will see the game software will display a "PINBALL MISSING" message if it fails to detect a sufficient combination of trough and/or lock switches closed. They may have failed to mention that, but it seems unlikely given the large amount of information they provided.
You are correct that Bally solid-state games that featured multi-ball operation (e.g., Centaur, Medusa) *do* require all the trough switches to be operating properly for the start button to function, and I believe that was also the case for Williams System 11 games. It is definitely NOT the case with WPC-era games.
Tony
Earlier machines may, but starting with Funhouse, the game WILL start without all the balls.
ALSO, since I could get into diagnostic mode, I tested EVERY switch on the machine,
The ALL work (including the trough) EXCEPT for the START button, the PLUMB BOB
and the left hand COIN DROP SWITCH. Every other switch on the respective row/column
work. (Start and Plumb Bob are both COLUMN 1)
I ran an additional test as suggested by John Robertson and put a diode across pins
J206.1 and J209.3 (essentially performing what the START button is supposed to do)
AND THE GAME STARTS. So as Tony stated earlier, the problem lies somewhere between
the header pins on the CPU board and the start switch itself. HAS to be a wire or connection
since the COIN DOOR INTERFACE BOARD worked fine in another Funhouse. BTW, the DIODE for
the START button is ON the COIN DOOR INTERFACE BOARD so a bad/detached/missing diode
is NOT the problem.
I have to say I really -do- appreciate all the commentary and suggestions though.
Ron Kral
Tony
OK, problem solved. As Tony suggested, we ran a wire from the START switch pole to a diode and connected
it to the appropriate pin on the CPU board. Pressed START and BINGO, it registered and started a game.
We were in the process of moving forward to find the broken wire when I noticed that the Molex plug
going onto the pins on the CPU board had a tiny, tiny amount of green battery leakage. The
batteries HAD leaked and dripped an almost invisible bit on the Molex connector. Apparently this
corroded the inside of the female connector enough to prevent electrical connection. We soaked the
plug in white vinegar for an hour, brushed off what we could and, voila, the START button now works!
I -will- replace the connector, but it's clear this WAS the issue. THANKS TO ALL WHO OFFERED ADVICE
particularly Tony Dziedzic and John Robertson. You guys are the BEST!
On 2021/01/27 9:59 p.m., Ron Kral wrote:Yes, the CPU board had battery leak damage also. I washed it in 50/50 vinegar and it all came off. That said, many solder joints look discolored.
On Monday, January 25, 2021 at 11:58:05 AM UTC-5, Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic wrote:
On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 8:13:38 PM UTC-5, Ron Kral wrote:
On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 7:06:10 PM UTC-5, Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic wrote:Ron, the next thing I'd try is disconnecting the green/brown wire at the start button switch and running a jumper wire from the start button switch terminal to ANY green/brown wire on the bottom of the playfield, and seeing if that resolves the start button issue. If not, replace the green/brown wire at the start button switch and try the same jumper trick, this time using the white/orange wire. This should isolate which of the two wires is the issue. If you have a spare 0.156" header with at least 8 pins, you could try the same technique, this time pulling J6 from the coin door interface board and using a pair of jumper wires to bring the green/brown wire from header pin 7 or 8 and the orange/white from header pin 2. (You'd need to pull J6 while the game is powered on otherwise you'll not be able to enter diagnostics mode, but if you have credits on the game or it's set on free play that won't matter.)
On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 4:49:24 PM UTC-5, diana anderson wrote: >>>>> On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 7:40:42 AM UTC-7, Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic wrote:Tony is correct here.The WPC games do not need the full complement of balls to start..
You're welcome to disagree, but you're still wrong where it concerns Funhouse. If you don't believe me check page 1-42 of the Funhouse manual. I can't copy/paste from the crappy PDF version of the manual I have, but I quote verbatim:On Saturday, January 23, 2021 at 2:38:51 PM UTC-5, diana anderson wrote:Nope..I disagree..I've been in the the buiness 30+ and the problem lies within the ball throh and/or start button schute.. like i said check and make sure all 3 switches are working just because there "clicking" dont give it a green light as ive had the same exact problem on some of my pins in the past the problem lies in that area,also check on that diode it may be hanging
That's *not* the case for WPC-era games; if the game thinks it is missing a pinball somewhere it will display a diagnostic message to that effect when the Start button is pressed.Yes, the START button IS lit.Take all 3 balls out and maunally press down on the 3 connectors in the trough and make sure you "hear" the switchs close and then fire up a game bet it works..if 1 switch is broke the game will never start
However, it does NOT register either for game play OR in Switch Edge test
To the op: check the orientation of the diode on the Start button (there should be one, as the Start button is part of the 8x8 switch matrix), or just replace the diode, being sure to observe proper polarity (green wire to center switch terminal, banded end of diode to the "button" end of the switch (where the actuator mounts), non-banded diode end and white wire to opposite end. An open diode is fairly rare, but it does happen on occasion.
As for the switch 24 issue, I'd really suspect an intermittent connection in the row (4, white/yellow) or column (2, green/red) wiring, either an internal fracture of the wire strands leading from the coin door interface board or a bad connection at the connector at either end of the cabinet wiring harness. It's rare, but I've seen a couple of cases in my 20+ years of working on WPC-era games.
Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic
"FUNHOUSE normally uses three balls; however, it will operate with one or two balls." The only way it can operate with less than three balls is if it will start with less than three balls in the game, and there is no adjustment in the adjustments menu to specify how many balls are necessary to operate. After WPC games run through some number of ball search cycles on startup they eventually time out and enter play mode.
And FWIW, the original poster mentioned they had already entered the diagnostics menus via the "Begin Test" button, and if you check the manual page you will see the game software will display a "PINBALL MISSING" message if it fails to detect a sufficient combination of trough and/or lock switches closed. They may have failed to mention that, but it seems unlikely given the large amount of information they provided.
You are correct that Bally solid-state games that featured multi-ball operation (e.g., Centaur, Medusa) *do* require all the trough switches to be operating properly for the start button to function, and I believe that was also the case for Williams System 11 games. It is definitely NOT the case with WPC-era games.
Tony
Earlier machines may, but starting with Funhouse, the game WILL start without all the balls.
ALSO, since I could get into diagnostic mode, I tested EVERY switch on the machine,
The ALL work (including the trough) EXCEPT for the START button, the PLUMB BOB
and the left hand COIN DROP SWITCH. Every other switch on the respective row/column
work. (Start and Plumb Bob are both COLUMN 1)
I ran an additional test as suggested by John Robertson and put a diode across pins
J206.1 and J209.3 (essentially performing what the START button is supposed to do)
AND THE GAME STARTS. So as Tony stated earlier, the problem lies somewhere between
the header pins on the CPU board and the start switch itself. HAS to be a wire or connection
since the COIN DOOR INTERFACE BOARD worked fine in another Funhouse. BTW, the DIODE for
the START button is ON the COIN DOOR INTERFACE BOARD so a bad/detached/missing diode
is NOT the problem.
I have to say I really -do- appreciate all the commentary and suggestions though.
Ron Kral
Tony
OK, problem solved. As Tony suggested, we ran a wire from the START switch pole to a diode and connected
it to the appropriate pin on the CPU board. Pressed START and BINGO, it registered and started a game.
We were in the process of moving forward to find the broken wire when I noticed that the Molex plug
going onto the pins on the CPU board had a tiny, tiny amount of green battery leakage. The
batteries HAD leaked and dripped an almost invisible bit on the Molex connector. Apparently this
corroded the inside of the female connector enough to prevent electrical connection. We soaked the
plug in white vinegar for an hour, brushed off what we could and, voila, the START button now works!
I -will- replace the connector, but it's clear this WAS the issue. THANKS TO ALL WHO OFFERED ADVICE
particularly Tony Dziedzic and John Robertson. You guys are the BEST!
Always glad to help!
Have you washed the MPU board down with white vinegar:water (50:50) to
catch any other corrosion possibilities? If you find one, there will be more!
John :-#)#
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(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
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On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 12:48:01 PM UTC-5, John Robertson wrote:
On 2021/01/27 9:59 p.m., Ron Kral wrote:Yes, the CPU board had battery leak damage also. I washed it in 50/50 vinegar and it all came off. That said, many solder joints look discolored.
On Monday, January 25, 2021 at 11:58:05 AM UTC-5, Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic wrote:Always glad to help!
On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 8:13:38 PM UTC-5, Ron Kral wrote:
On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 7:06:10 PM UTC-5, Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic wrote:Ron, the next thing I'd try is disconnecting the green/brown wire at the start button switch and running a jumper wire from the start button switch terminal to ANY green/brown wire on the bottom of the playfield, and seeing if that resolves the start button issue. If not, replace the green/brown wire at the start button switch and try the same jumper trick, this time using the white/orange wire. This should isolate which of the two wires is the issue. If you have a spare 0.156" header with at least 8 pins, you could try the same technique, this time pulling J6 from the coin door interface board and using a pair of jumper wires to bring the green/brown wire from header pin 7 or 8 and the orange/white from header pin 2. (You'd need to pull J6 while the game is powered on otherwise you'll not be able to enter diagnostics mode, but if you have credits on the game or it's set on free play that won't matter.)
On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 4:49:24 PM UTC-5, diana anderson wrote: >>>>>>> On Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 7:40:42 AM UTC-7, Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic wrote:Tony is correct here.The WPC games do not need the full complement of balls to start..
You're welcome to disagree, but you're still wrong where it concerns Funhouse. If you don't believe me check page 1-42 of the Funhouse manual. I can't copy/paste from the crappy PDF version of the manual I have, but I quote verbatim:On Saturday, January 23, 2021 at 2:38:51 PM UTC-5, diana anderson wrote:Nope..I disagree..I've been in the the buiness 30+ and the problem lies within the ball throh and/or start button schute.. like i said check and make sure all 3 switches are working just because there "clicking" dont give it a green light as ive had the same exact problem on some of my pins in the past the problem lies in that area,also check on that diode it may be hanging
That's *not* the case for WPC-era games; if the game thinks it is missing a pinball somewhere it will display a diagnostic message to that effect when the Start button is pressed.Yes, the START button IS lit.Take all 3 balls out and maunally press down on the 3 connectors in the trough and make sure you "hear" the switchs close and then fire up a game bet it works..if 1 switch is broke the game will never start
However, it does NOT register either for game play OR in Switch Edge test
To the op: check the orientation of the diode on the Start button (there should be one, as the Start button is part of the 8x8 switch matrix), or just replace the diode, being sure to observe proper polarity (green wire to center switch terminal, banded end of diode to the "button" end of the switch (where the actuator mounts), non-banded diode end and white wire to opposite end. An open diode is fairly rare, but it does happen on occasion.
As for the switch 24 issue, I'd really suspect an intermittent connection in the row (4, white/yellow) or column (2, green/red) wiring, either an internal fracture of the wire strands leading from the coin door interface board or a bad connection at the connector at either end of the cabinet wiring harness. It's rare, but I've seen a couple of cases in my 20+ years of working on WPC-era games.
Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic
"FUNHOUSE normally uses three balls; however, it will operate with one or two balls." The only way it can operate with less than three balls is if it will start with less than three balls in the game, and there is no adjustment in the adjustments menu to specify how many balls are necessary to operate. After WPC games run through some number of ball search cycles on startup they eventually time out and enter play mode.
And FWIW, the original poster mentioned they had already entered the diagnostics menus via the "Begin Test" button, and if you check the manual page you will see the game software will display a "PINBALL MISSING" message if it fails to detect a sufficient combination of trough and/or lock switches closed. They may have failed to mention that, but it seems unlikely given the large amount of information they provided.
You are correct that Bally solid-state games that featured multi-ball operation (e.g., Centaur, Medusa) *do* require all the trough switches to be operating properly for the start button to function, and I believe that was also the case for Williams System 11 games. It is definitely NOT the case with WPC-era games.
Tony
Earlier machines may, but starting with Funhouse, the game WILL start without all the balls.
ALSO, since I could get into diagnostic mode, I tested EVERY switch on the machine,
The ALL work (including the trough) EXCEPT for the START button, the PLUMB BOB
and the left hand COIN DROP SWITCH. Every other switch on the respective row/column
work. (Start and Plumb Bob are both COLUMN 1)
I ran an additional test as suggested by John Robertson and put a diode across pins
J206.1 and J209.3 (essentially performing what the START button is supposed to do)
AND THE GAME STARTS. So as Tony stated earlier, the problem lies somewhere between
the header pins on the CPU board and the start switch itself. HAS to be a wire or connection
since the COIN DOOR INTERFACE BOARD worked fine in another Funhouse. BTW, the DIODE for
the START button is ON the COIN DOOR INTERFACE BOARD so a bad/detached/missing diode
is NOT the problem.
I have to say I really -do- appreciate all the commentary and suggestions though.
Ron Kral
Tony
OK, problem solved. As Tony suggested, we ran a wire from the START switch pole to a diode and connected
it to the appropriate pin on the CPU board. Pressed START and BINGO, it registered and started a game.
We were in the process of moving forward to find the broken wire when I noticed that the Molex plug
going onto the pins on the CPU board had a tiny, tiny amount of green battery leakage. The
batteries HAD leaked and dripped an almost invisible bit on the Molex connector. Apparently this
corroded the inside of the female connector enough to prevent electrical connection. We soaked the
plug in white vinegar for an hour, brushed off what we could and, voila, the START button now works!
I -will- replace the connector, but it's clear this WAS the issue. THANKS TO ALL WHO OFFERED ADVICE
particularly Tony Dziedzic and John Robertson. You guys are the BEST!
Have you washed the MPU board down with white vinegar:water (50:50) to
catch any other corrosion possibilities? If you find one, there will be
more!
John :-#)#
AND, again, the machine fires up, BUT NONE of the door switches work.
I don't know about any other CPU board issues since I cannot get it into diagnostic
mode. Is it worth reflowing the solder on the discolored solder joints or shall I just send it in to be repaired? The board in the machine at the moment is a replacement Rottendog MPU but I'd like to get the original
board working and reinstalled. Your opinion?
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