From Newsgroup: rec.games.pinball

I'm puzzled by the behavior of a 1966 WMS Full House ball advance. The
machine acts as the schematic shows, but it won't advance the ball count.

This is a single player where it has three rollover lanes at the top that
the ball must pass through. Any one of the lanes will trigger the Ball
Index relay. To advance the ball count the Ball Index Relay must be
energized. But when losing the ball into the outhole the Outhole relay
engages which immediately releases the Ball Index relay and runs the score motor which then fires the ball release solenoid. Because the Ball Index
relay is released immediately by the Outhole relay, the Ball Count Unit Step
Up is never advanced. The Ball Count is supposed to be advanced through the Ball Index relay but by the time is supposed to be fired, the N.O. switch on the Ball Index relay is already open and nothing happens. It seems like there's a timing problem like the Ball Index relay should release a half
second after the Outhole relay is engaged, but there's no delay.

Am I looking at this wrong? What am I missing? Any ideas?

Daina
--
Daina Pettit=daina@xmission.com, voice: (801)277-6296, msg: (801)277-0888
Linux Consulting Salt Lake City, Utah http://www.MrPinball.com
Mr. Pinball Classified--More Pinball Ads than ANYWHERE, and they're FREE!
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From Newsgroup: rec.games.pinball

On Tuesday, September 22, 2020 at 12:24:31 AM UTC-5, Daina Pettit wrote:

I'm puzzled by the behavior of a 1966 WMS Full House ball advance. The machine acts as the schematic shows, but it won't advance the ball count.

This is a single player where it has three rollover lanes at the top that the ball must pass through. Any one of the lanes will trigger the Ball
Index relay. To advance the ball count the Ball Index Relay must be energized. But when losing the ball into the outhole the Outhole relay engages which immediately releases the Ball Index relay and runs the score motor which then fires the ball release solenoid. Because the Ball Index relay is released immediately by the Outhole relay, the Ball Count Unit Step Up is never advanced. The Ball Count is supposed to be advanced through the Ball Index relay but by the time is supposed to be fired, the N.O. switch on the Ball Index relay is already open and nothing happens. It seems like there's a timing problem like the Ball Index relay should release a half second after the Outhole relay is engaged, but there's no delay.

Am I looking at this wrong? What am I missing? Any ideas?

Daina
--
Daina Pettit=da...@xmission.com, voice: (801)277-6296, msg: (801)277-0888 Linux Consulting Salt Lake City, Utah http://www.MrPinball.com
Mr. Pinball Classified--More Pinball Ads than ANYWHERE, and they're FREE!

Bad Relay or Broken wire?
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From Newsgroup: rec.games.pinball

On 9/21/20 11:24 PM, Daina Pettit wrote:

Because the Ball Index
relay is released immediately by the Outhole relay, the Ball Count Unit Step Up is never advanced.

The Ball Index relay should not be immediately released by the Outhole
relay. In parallel with the Outhole relay switch is the normally closed
Score Motor 3D switch. So while the Outhole relay switch may open
immediately the Motor 3D switch should hold the Ball Index relay active
until the #3 cam opens the 3D switch.

The Ball Count Step Up solenoid is fired by the Score Motor 1A switch
which should close well before the 3D switch opens.

If your Ball Index relay isn't holding long enough to let the Ball Count
Step Up solenoid to fire I suspect that your Motor 3D switch isn't
closing properly which lets your Ball Index relay release too soon.

/Mark

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From Newsgroup: rec.games.pinball

I had a similar timing issue on a WMS Solids N Stripes... I had to remove a motor switch stack from the motor board and haphazardly replaced the stack too far back on the board, thus hosing the timing on a few circuits...

you might want to check to ensure the switch stack that houses the switch contact affecting timing for the ball index/outhole circuit is in the correct position on the motorboard.
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From Newsgroup: rec.games.pinball

Yep. That was it. Motor switch 3D. Not sure how I missed that. It was barely
not closed. Thanks for the help!

Daina

In article <rkgrvr$ve0$1@dont-email.me>,
Mark <r.g.p@funwithpinball.com> wrote:

On 9/21/20 11:24 PM, Daina Pettit wrote:

Because the Ball Index
relay is released immediately by the Outhole relay, the Ball Count Unit Step >> Up is never advanced.

The Ball Index relay should not be immediately released by the Outhole >relay. In parallel with the Outhole relay switch is the normally closed >Score Motor 3D switch. So while the Outhole relay switch may open >immediately the Motor 3D switch should hold the Ball Index relay active >until the #3 cam opens the 3D switch.

The Ball Count Step Up solenoid is fired by the Score Motor 1A switch
which should close well before the 3D switch opens.

If your Ball Index relay isn't holding long enough to let the Ball Count >Step Up solenoid to fire I suspect that your Motor 3D switch isn't
closing properly which lets your Ball Index relay release too soon.

/Mark

--
Daina Pettit=daina@xmission.com, voice: (801)277-6296, msg: (801)277-0888
Linux Consulting Salt Lake City, Utah http://www.MrPinball.com
Mr. Pinball Classified--More Pinball Ads than ANYWHERE, and they're FREE!
--- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.113