• Neuralink

    From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Saturday, August 15, 2020 10:29:13
    Re: Neuralink
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Sat Aug 15 2020 01:31 am

    Imagine how life would change if a solar flare acted as an EMP and fried the majority of electronics on Earth. Even some of the simplest items have some sort of solid state regulator or components that may not survive such a hit. Modrn batteries have solid state ICS to help in charging or protecting it's cells from over charging.

    That would be one of the dangers of implanting electronic devices in our bodies.

    Nightfox

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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Hatton on Saturday, August 15, 2020 16:43:24
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Hatton to Nightfox on Fri Aug 14 2020 11:24 pm

    There has been a debate raging for decades on whether "equality" means equal access to opportunities or forcing equal outcomes.

    By forcing equal outcomes, you end up with communism. We are all different and we all have our strengths and weaknesses, and some people have more strengths and others have more weaknesses. It's just like in the animal kingdom.

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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Ogg on Saturday, August 15, 2020 16:54:16
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Ogg to All on Fri Aug 14 2020 09:23 pm

    WHERE is this data going to come from? The internet?

    What happens if the servers get corrupted with false information, or if
    they go down?

    What happens when the electric grid goes down?

    Dependency on simple point of sale systems and processing a payment are a problem when the electric grid goes down, even for just a few minutes.

    The high-technology of neural implants will be useless when someone pulls the plug, literally.

    Yes, we are going to be hooked up to some kind of internet with the intention of us, as humans, joining a hivemind. I am sure there will be failsafes, as this kind of development won't happen until the end of the century... if everything shutdown, I guess we'd just become mere humans again...

    It's a strange idea for the future of man, and it's completely alien to most folk... but we are at a time where a single madman with power has the ability to cause a nuclear holocaust at the push of a button. The natural progression of technology is that we merge with it... even professor Stephen Hawking could see that.

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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Ogg on Saturday, August 15, 2020 17:04:15
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Ogg to Andeddu on Fri Aug 14 2020 09:34 pm

    The "network" can fail. I posit that those who are "pure" (no implants) could be highly desirable to intercede (and thus valuable) to fix or override a problem.

    Quite possible. There may be a fair number of those who are opposed to implants all together and view it as the "mark of the devil" as the human body (perfection, in other words) is not to be desecrated in such a fashion.

    If network instability is such a thing in circa 2100, I can see such a plan floundering. The network needs to be perfect and it needs to be maintained at all times, otherwise the entire system is vulnerable to attack.

    Imagine relying on a computer to do all of your low-level processing, such as structuring a sentence, and then being completely shut-off from the network after it goes offline. I think people would struggle to communicate with each other thereafter. We'd be like little babies all over again, unable to articulate anything until the network's brought back online.

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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Ogg on Saturday, August 15, 2020 17:09:31
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Ogg to Underminer on Fri Aug 14 2020 09:47 pm

    Our bodies are not meant to be deeply augmented with technology like the fictional writers depict. We have to take anti-rejection drugs and blood thinners to counteract the body's natural detendency to eliminate what it perceives to be an invasion.

    AND, the tech/body interface is highly prone to infection. Just ask
    people who've had feeding tubes connected to their stomach.

    You have to remember that all this is relatively new. It wasn't long ago we had people with rubber hands and peg-legs. Technology has come a long way in only two decades, imagine where we will be 80 years from now. I agree that we will have to be on some kind of drug to prevent the body from rejecting our new limbs/implants... whichever big pharma firm secures that patent will become very powerful indeed.

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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Saturday, August 15, 2020 17:33:02
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Fri Aug 14 2020 09:48 pm

    What movies? I'm only really thinking the Borg from Star Trek here.. And why would we want to lose our individualism and become a collective?

    Don't the humans in Star Trek belong to the United Federation which Earth, as a nationless planet ruled by a World Government, is a part of? It's the same in films and shows like Serenity, Firefly and Starship Troopers, where Earth is depicted as a United Federation. There are many other examples of humanity acting as a collective but they elude me right now.

    The point I am trying to make is that by being individuals with completely seperate belief structures, we cannot progress as a civilisation. Everybody has to be on the same page and everybody has to walk in the same direction. This can be forced via a dictitorial World Government, brain washing or by merging us with a machine-interface to create a hive-mind.

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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Saturday, August 15, 2020 17:51:28
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Fri Aug 14 2020 09:50 pm

    I think we have a ways to go before we fully understand if human-made machines with AI are (or can be) really alive and have sentience or not.. But I'm still wondering why we'd want to do that.

    "I think therefore I am" - Descartes

    Any creature capable of any form of thought necessarily exists, and I believe this extends to silicon based beings as well.

    Man has been playing God for a while now. I believe evolution is now in OUR hands, not necesarily in the hands of nature. Imagine a cybernetic species capable of bypassing the development stage of "baby". Babies never discovered anything important, they've never contributed anything... think of all the resources consumed over 16 years of developmental life where we, as fleshy organic humans, produce almost nothing of tangible importance. If we can digitise consciousness, we can create fully grown bodies implanted with consciousness which, as part of a hive-mind, are as clever and as knowledgable (as they take their first breath) as any other member of their species.

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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Underminer on Saturday, August 15, 2020 17:57:46
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Underminer to Ogg on Sat Aug 15 2020 12:23 am

    No, I don't mean you can protect yourself against hackers with sporting goods if you get augmented - I mean something as simple as a baseball bat or golf club can take the present modern un-augmented human "off-line" with less effort than a hacker would have to put in.

    Your original comment almost made me spit out my coffee, hilarious! I agree, as vulnerable as any high-tech system can be to high-tech attacks, so too can low-tech systems be vulnerable to low-tech attacks.

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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Saturday, August 15, 2020 18:13:35
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Sat Aug 15 2020 05:10 pm

    We don't understand the mind well enough to know if this well work, and even if we could increase rote capabilities, would it make us more intelligent?

    I think technophiles take a very limited, and myopic view of what intelligence is, and what mental abilities we need in order to create a great civilisation.

    The idea that we're going to improve the intellectual capabilities of individual humans via implants is theory only. A low-level symbiosis is possible, however. Experiments show that we can move electronics with the mind alone with patients able to move individual fingers on a robotic hand, and drink water from a cup, etc... same with people who are able to walk with advanced prostetic legs. These technologies will improve over my lifetime and will become superior to our own biological limbs in the not too distant future. Humans relying on AI to make them smarter is a long way away, I doubt we'll ever live to see it. I do think we WILL obtain implants which allow us to interact with other electornics with our mind, doing away with devices such as keyboards, etc...

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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Arelor on Saturday, August 15, 2020 18:29:15
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Sat Aug 15 2020 04:21 am

    Free will creates creatures that can go either wrong or right. As C.S. Lewis said "if a thing is free to be good, it can also be free to be bad - and free will is wha
    has made evil possible."

    Is a "world of autometa, of creatures that work like machines" a world worth creating? I think technocrats like Musk believe so. It's the only way mankind, as a speci
    will ever be able to move in one direction.
    Free will makes evil possible, but also makes good possible.

    Claiming that surrendering free will in order to achieve peace is a worthwhile price is like claiming that bending knee to a maniacal tyrant is a worthwhile price. Sure,
    there would have not been a WWII if everybody had bent knee to Hitler. There would have been a decade of genetic cleansing and then everybody would have lived in peace
    under his boot.

    Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love, or joy or goodness.

    I have noticed that the world depicted in BNW, where free will is no more, is a world without suffering. I have an intense belief that a stale, mechanical world absent of suffering, is preferable to one with free will and all the good (and evil) that comes packaged with it.

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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Saturday, August 15, 2020 15:06:00
    Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-

    I think in the short term it'll be sold as a kind of quality of
    life upgrade for human beings. Imagine having the ability to
    access data as quickly as a computer, or having the memory of an autistic savant. Humans will no longer be hindered by the brain's inability to learn anything quickly... imagine learning a new
    language in a day. That's the kind of potential that Musk speaks
    of when he talks of a a brain-machine interface. Even an a below average intellect could be elevated to the standards of geniuses
    today.

    And you think that is a Good Thing...?

    It's good in the sense that it'll improve our chances of one day
    becoming a spacefaring species, bad in the sense that we'll lose
    our humanity.

    OK, so then we can agree that it's a Bad Thing.

    Very bad. Something to fight against and avoid at all costs.
    Yep.



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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Saturday, August 15, 2020 15:25:00
    Nightfox wrote to Andeddu <=-

    I think the idea is that we'll lose our individualism to become a very efficient collective. All those sci-fi movies you've watched where humanity is at peace, it's because we've sacrificed our individual beliefs and identitiy to become a unified collective. I believe this may be the case by the end of the century.

    What movies? I'm only really thinking the Borg from Star Trek
    here.. And why would we want to lose our individualism and
    become a collective?

    We wouldn't, and we (in the USA) won't.

    The Euro-commies want that, though, and are already making
    progress in achieving it.



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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Saturday, August 15, 2020 15:18:20
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sat Aug 15 2020 05:33 pm

    What movies? I'm only really thinking the Borg from Star Trek here..
    And why would we want to lose our individualism and become a
    collective?

    Don't the humans in Star Trek belong to the United Federation which Earth, as a nationless planet ruled by a World Government, is a part of? It's the same in films and shows like Serenity, Firefly and Starship Troopers, where Earth is depicted as a United Federation. There are many other examples of humanity acting as a collective but they elude me right now.

    Yes, but those humans don't have any robotic implants. I guess I wasn't quite sure what you meant by "collective". :P

    I suppose you could consider our current world governments collectives..

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Saturday, August 15, 2020 15:21:07
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sat Aug 15 2020 05:51 pm

    I think we have a ways to go before we fully understand if human-made
    machines with AI are (or can be) really alive and have sentience or
    not.. But I'm still wondering why we'd want to do that.

    "I think therefore I am" - Descartes

    Any creature capable of any form of thought necessarily exists, and I believe this extends to silicon based beings as well.

    Simply existing is different from being alive. A computer, smartphone, etc. exists, but it's not considered alive.
    Even as we develop smarter and more powerful AI, of course those things exist (as tangible objects or pieces of software), but I'm not sure by what definitions we could consider it alive.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Saturday, August 15, 2020 15:31:37
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Ogg on Sat Aug 15 2020 04:54 pm

    Yes, we are going to be hooked up to some kind of internet with the intention of us, as humans, joining a hivemind. I am sure there will be failsafes, as this kind of development won't happen until the end of the century... if everything shutdown, I guess we'd just become mere humans again...

    Who is proposing this? I've never actually heard about this as a serious idea, and I'm not sure everyone would be willing to go along with that.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Saturday, August 15, 2020 15:33:56
    Re: Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Ogg on Sat Aug 15 2020 05:04 pm

    Imagine relying on a computer to do all of your low-level processing, such as structuring a sentence, and then being completely shut-off from the network after it goes offline. I think people would struggle to communicate with each other thereafter. We'd be like little babies all over again, unable to articulate anything until the network's brought back online.

    And by relying on a computer for things like that, you're relying by proxy on the people who designed and made the hardware and software. I'm sure they'll program mistakes into it, whether intentional or not. As far as sentence structure, grammar, etc., I continually see common mistakes online, such as using the wrong version of your/you're, their/there/they're, combining words into a single word unnecessarily and for no apparent reason (i.e., I've seen people say "have a goodnight"), etc..

    Nightfox

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  • From Vlk-451@VERT/HAVENS to Andeddu on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 14:09:51
    Re: Neuralink
    By: Andeddu to Baguette on Fri Sep 04 2020 09:27 am

    health, etc... a lot of us will buy into and become invested in the idea as it will, in a more mature stage of development, provide benefits to those who are fully abled.

    I wanted to get a Neuralink so that I could get an Arduino board with a CANBUS-Shield connected to my cars ODBII port so that I could neurally interface with my car. The most the thing is gonna realistically be able to do is read signals and send them to other places via Bluetooth. I want an interface hard wire plug option.
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  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Vlk-451 on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 21:58:19
    Re: Neuralink
    By: Vlk-451 to Andeddu on Wed Oct 28 2020 02:09 pm

    I wanted to get a Neuralink so that I could get an Arduino board with a CANBUS-Shield connected to my cars ODBII port so that I could neurally interface with my car. The most the thing is gonna realistically be able to is read signals and send them to other places via Bluetooth. I want an interface hard wire plug option.

    No shit? Wish I knew WTF you were talking about. ;-)

    ... There's little worse than being peerless in a peer-review system.

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  • From Vlk-451@VERT/INREALM to HusTler on Sunday, November 29, 2020 23:36:41
    Re: Neuralink
    By: HusTler to Vlk-451 on Wed Oct 28 2020 09:58 pm

    No shit? Wish I knew WTF you were talking about. ;-)

    ... There's little worse than being peerless in a peer-review system.

    You think I can afford to get an education? I just wana be able to hack my car with my brain so that I don't have to replace some hard to get old stock window switch for my door panel on my drivers side so that I can smoke my Marlboro Reds in peace without having to drive down the road with my driver door open. And so that Whenever someone says something seriously stupid when I'm driving, my brain involentary causes the car to break check, hopefully reducing the instances of idiotic utterances in my presence. That or increasing the number of fatal crashes so that I can escape this fresh hell.

    You can get an idea of what I'm talking about watching this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAAzXM5vsi0

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