Ok so who won? Or Who do you think won? Why do you think they won? How long is it going to take before we know who won? Is Trump really taking this to court?
Let's debate... What do you think USA?
---
þ Synchronet þ Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
Ok so who won? Or Who do you think won? Why do you think they won? How long it going to take before we know who won? Is Trump really taking this to cour Let's debate... What do you think USA?
Ok so who won? Or Who do you think won? Why do you think they won?
is it going to take before we know who won? Is Trump really taking court?
Let's debate... What do you think USA?
Here are your answers:
Joe Biden.
Joe Biden.
Most Votes.
Hopefully by weekend.
Ok so who won? Or Who do you think won? Why do you think they won? How long is it going to take before we know who won? Is Trump really taking this to court?
Let's debate... What do you think USA?
Ok so who won?
Or Who do you think won?
Why do you think they won?
How long is it going to take before we know who won?
Is Trump really taking this to court?
Biden will be declared the victor due to the deluge of mail-in votes. Trump will declare a formal protracted enquiry which will last several months during
which there will be civil strife, Biden will win in the courts and will be inaugurated as the 46th President of the United States on January 20th 2021.
Re: Who WON??
By: HusTler to All on Wed Nov 04 2020 02:07 pm
Ok so who won? Or Who do you think won? Why do you think they won? How
long is it going to take before we know who won? Is Trump really
taking this to court?
Let's debate... What do you think USA?
Biden will be declared the victor due to the deluge of mail-in votes. Trump will declare a formal protracted enquiry which will last several months during which there will be civil strife, Biden will win in the courts and will be inaugurated as the 46th President of the United States on January 20th 2021.
on January 20th 2021.
Ok so who won? Or Who do you think won? Why do you think they won? How long is it going to take before we know who won? Is Trump really taking this to court?
Biden will be declared the victor due to the deluge of mail-in votes. Trump will declare a formal protracted enquiry which will last several months duri which there will be civil strife, Biden will win in the courts and will be inaugurated as the 46th President of the United States on January 20th 2021.
Part of the issue will really coming down to AZ and NV, and I know more
about AZ elections than other states.
And then the most boring 4 years of dealing with sleepy Joe. At least Trump was fun. You never knew what was going come out of his mouth. Anyone remember Imus in the morning? Howard Stern is another one.
Short of someone caught doing some really naughty things, that's the
most likely outcome. Minor chance of NV flipping, slightly less chance
with AZ, as of this post.
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: Tracker1 to Andeddu on Thu Nov 05 2020 04:19 pm
Short of someone caught doing some really naughty things, that's the
most likely outcome. Minor chance of NV flipping, slightly less chance with AZ, as of this post.
The Dems think they have this election in the bag. Imagine what will happen Trump overturns the result in court and is handed another term in office. Th Far Left are going to go berserk!
Part of the issue will really coming down to AZ and NV, and I know more
about AZ elections than other states.
Are you hearing anything about AZ polling locations giving voters Sharpies and telling them they could only use the Sharpies, but that some folks noticed the Sharpie marked ballots were not being counted?
Seems there may have been some locations where people were handing out ballpoints outside and telling people the Sharpie marker votes wouldn't get counted. They were being run off by poll workers. One of the ballpoint distributors interviewed a girl that came out and said the people who
placed their votes in the machine before hers didn't get their votes
counted, but she used a ballpoint (that the poll workers tried to take from her) and hers was registered by the ballot machine.
They were supposedly doing this (the "vote with a Sharpie or else" stuff)
in Republican areas. Just wondering if that is all hogwash or what might have
been going on.
The Dems think they have this election in the bag. Imagine what will happen if >Trump overturns the result in court and is handed another term in office. The >Far Left are going to go berserk!
Yes, the left will go berserk if the election went for Trump, specially after >fraud investigations.
But I expect the right would go berserk too if Biden got the election, because >all the fraud that is surfacing as of late.
Yes, the left will go berserk if the election went for Trump, specially after fraud investigations.
But I expect the right would go berserk too if Biden got the election, because all the fraud that is surfacing as of late.
These elections are for show only. There are videos of poll workers grabbing ballots by the bunch and placing them in urns while nobody is looking. If this sort of evidence was presented in a key state and nothing was done about it, next election would have twice the fraud, because it would have been proved fraud is for free. I think that if citizens in key contested areas where there is significative evidence of fraud put up with it today, they will be voting in fixed elections forever more.
Short of someone caught doing some really naughty things, that's the
most likely outcome. Minor chance of NV flipping, slightly less chance
with AZ, as of this post.
The Dems think they have this election in the bag. Imagine what will happen if
Trump overturns the result in court and is handed another term in office. The Far Left are going to go berserk!
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: Tracker1 to Andeddu on Thu Nov 05 2020 04:19 pm
Short of someone caught doing some really naughty things, that's the
most likely outcome. Minor chance of NV flipping, slightly less
chance with AZ, as of this post.
The Dems think they have this election in the bag. Imagine what will happen if Trump overturns the result in court and is handed another term in office. The Far Left are going to go berserk!
(Part of me knows I should just stay off the BBSes and social media for
a while, pressure and stress are just getting hard to handle, and I wasn't sleeping well before the election.)
The Dems think they have this election in the bag. Imagine what will happen if >Trump overturnsthe result in court and is handed another term in office. The >Far Left are going to go berserk!
While I would rather Biden not be President, I would rather not see this
get prolonged and overturned in the court, either. The Left will set the whole damn country on fire then. I have more optimism that the country can survive a year or tw
of Biden and 2-3 years of Harris than I do the
country surviving what the Left would try to put it through otherwise.
* SLMR 2.1a * "At last I'm organized," he sighed, and died.
(Part of me knows I should just stay off the BBSes and social media forI feel the same way, I was hoping for a Trump win as his values align more with my values.
a while, pressure and stress are just getting hard to handle, and I
wasn't sleeping well before the election.)
The Dems think they have this election in the bag. Imagine what will happen Trump overturns the result in court and is handed another term in office. Th Far Left are going to go berserk!
The Dems think they have this election in the bag. Imagine what will happen Trump overturns the result in court and is handed another term in office. Th Far Left are going to go berserk!
While I would rather Biden not be President, I would rather not see this
get prolonged and overturned in the court, either. The Left will set the whole damn country on fire then. I have more optimism that the country can survive a year or two of Biden and 2-3 years of Harris than I do the
country surviving what the Left would try to put it through otherwise.
Trump doesn't really do that... most likely there will be audits and recounts in many locations. In terms of some of the fishiness, it won't
be corrected in this election cycle. There might be policy and
procedure shifts between now and the next election, but that takes legislative action and a lot of pressure, such as with Florida in 2000
and since. Generally, state/local law holds and any changes are done at that level, and rarely does this change the outcome, though sometimes it does.
There are 5 states trump needs still in order to win, and that may
include some legislative action... I can tell you right now that NV and
AZ will likely hold as-is, both having restrictions on late ballots in place, short of anyone confessing to wrong-doing, but a recount could
change things if the "sharpie-gate" leads to discovery if improperly configured tabulators, which I have some doubts about, heads will likely roll if they do. I can't speak for GA, NC, PA or MI.
(Part of me knows I should just stay off the BBSes and social media for
a while, pressure and stress are just getting hard to handle, and I
wasn't sleeping well before the election.)
they are hoping he will just let it go so 'they can move on and heal'
I'd love to see civil war. We're way over do! Bring it on! I have my guns locked and loaded.
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: MRO to Andeddu on Sat Nov 07 2020 04:48 pm
they are hoping he will just let it go so 'they can move on and heal'
Yes, I've seen them urging him to concede quickly so that the country can move on, come together and heal. The country appears so divisive right now that I don't think that's possible. Trump needs to be defeated in court before anything can happen because, as it stands, a lot of people think their guy has been cheated.
well, a lot of cheating has been going on, that's why. i've seen videos ofpeople inside on voting places tossing ballots. i've seen videos of pollobservers being rejected entry.
that's just the stuff i've seen. this is probably happening 100 fold.
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
well, a lot of cheating has been going on, that's why. i've seen videos of people inside on voting places tossing ballots. i've seen videos of poll observers being rejected entry.
that's just the stuff i've seen. this is probably happening 100 fold.
Well Trump voters are under no obligation to turn the other cheek, accept Biden as their president-elect and come together with their Democrat neighbours. I don't recall the Democrats accepting Trump as their president, having faith in the democratic process and pushing aside their differences to heal as a nation. They immediately blamed Russian intervention for Trump's presidency and spent years and millions of dollars in pointless investigations trying to get him impeached and removed from office, they attacked Trump's supporters by calling them idiots, racists and misogynists and made concerted efforts to block all of his policies. Now they're wanting Trump supporters to remain calm, concede defeat and accept the vote. Hypocrisy if you ask me!
If their campaign was above board and no notable voter fraud was carried out, >they should be in office. I don't think it matters who is in charge now, >whether it's Trump or Biden, I can't see any light at the end of the tunnel >from an economic perspective. I like to keep an eye on the USA because anything
that happens there appears to happen here too. Even during the George Floyd >race riots, we had our own movement over here for no apparent reason; statues >were being toppled over, etc...
By and large the election appeared to be fraud free. Trump seems to be focusing
on the states which he had massive leads in prior to 100% Democrat mail-in >dumps. I don't know if there's any truth to that but it's inconcievable that >you could have over 100,000 mail-in ballots ALL being marked Democrat. I'm just
a casual observer from overseas so I don't have a dog in this fight... it's >quite entertaining though to see what'll become of this mess as Biden is >bulldozing ahead with his own future policies and Trump's standing firm, as if >he's going nowhere.
Oh, theres no more shenanigans than any normal election - and no more shenanigans with the mail-in part than anyone would expect with the vastly larger amount of folks that cast their ballots that way due to it being a pandemic.
I think all the 'we were robbed' folks are just sore.. kicking, screaming, begging and doing ANYTHING they can to change how the democratic system works.
Well Trump voters are under no obligation to turn the other cheek, accept Biden as their president-elect and come together with their Democrat neighbours. I don't recall the Democrats accepting Trump as their president, having faith in the democratic process and pushing aside their differences to heal as a nation. They immediately blamed Russian intervention for Trump's presidency and spent years and millions of dollars in pointless investigations trying to get him impeached and removed from office, they attacked Trump's supporters by calling them idiots, racists and misogynists and made concerted efforts to block all of his policies. Now they're wanting Trump supporters to remain calm, concede defeat and accept the vote. Hypocrisy if you ask me!
Well Trump voters are under no obligation to turn the other cheek, accept Bi as their president-elect and come together with their Democrat neighbours. I They immediately blamed Russian intervention for Trump's presidency and spen years and millions of dollars in pointless investigations trying to get him impeached and removed from office, they attacked Trump's supporters by calli them idiots, racists and misogynists and made concerted efforts to block all his policies. Now they're wanting Trump supporters to remain calm, concede defeat and accept the vote. Hypocrisy if you ask me!
Well Trump voters are under no obligation to turn the other cheek, accept Biden as their president-elect and come together with their Democrat neighbours. I don't recall the Democrats accepting Trump as their president, having faith in the democratic process and pushing aside their differences to heal as a nation. They immediately blamed Russian intervention for Trump's presidency and spent years and millions of dollars in pointless investigations trying to get him impeached and removed from office, they attacked Trump's supporters by calling them idiots, racists and misogynists and made concerted efforts to block all of his policies. Now they're wanting Trump supporters to remain calm, concede defeat and accept the vote. Hypocrisy if you ask me!
Depends if they want to show themselves as being better than the Democrat rabble. No need to stoop to their level. The bigger issue is trust. I don think that Trump supporters can place any trust in their opposition, not wit AOC wanting to make lists and all.
Biden needs to show some initiative, and expunge the bad elements from his party, and restore the Democrats to a pro-workers party that represents the every man. Unlikely.
HusTler wrote to Andeddu <=-
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: Andeddu to MRO on Mon Nov 09 2020 01:47 pm
Well Trump voters are under no obligation to turn the other cheek, accept Bi as their president-elect and come together with their Democrat neighbours. I They immediately blamed Russian intervention for Trump's presidency and spen years and millions of dollars in pointless investigations trying to get him impeached and removed from office, they attacked Trump's supporters by calli them idiots, racists and misogynists and made concerted efforts to block all his policies. Now they're wanting Trump supporters to remain calm, concede defeat and accept the vote. Hypocrisy if you ask me!
Isn't that something? They totally disrespect the office and now I'm supposed to welcome their guy to the presidency? I don't think so.
Schumer and Pelosi? Bahahhahha. They aint gonna get shit done anyway.
They jerked us off for 4 years. Now it's our turn. Paybacks a bitch.
That tyhpe of thing seems to be the state of the union in the US in recent years. The US has seemed to be very divided, at least since Obama was elected, and I almost want to say I felt like it started (or got worse) when George W Bush was elected in 2000. The 2000 US election was very close, almost a 50/50 split of popular votes. I remember Al Gore won the popular vote, but George W Bush got the majority of the electoral votes, and there was at least one recount (maybe several) in that election. There was a video going around of a vote counter staring at a punch card with a hanging chad, apparently confused about how to count it.
What part of Europe are you in? I heard about that happening in the UK but was not aware that it happened elsewhere.
It is not uncommon for the mail-in vote, excluding the military votes, to lean towards Democratic candidates. It is not normal for them to lean at such a high percentage.
Isn't that something? They totally disrespect the office and now I'm supposed to welcome their guy to the presidency? I don't think so. Schumer and Pelosi? Bahahhahha. They aint gonna get shit done anyway. They jerked us off for 4 years. Now it's our turn. Paybacks a bitch.
Depends if they want to show themselves as being better than the Democrat rabble. No need to stoop to their level. The bigger issue is trust. I don't think that Trump supporters can place any trust in their opposition, not with AOC wanting to make lists and all.
Biden needs to show some initiative, and expunge the bad elements from his party, and restore the Democrats to a pro-workers party that represents the every man. Unlikely.
When the left goes berserk, as we've seen, cities can count on long-term periods of violence and unrest with only light intervention.
The losing side was never going to be happy. I don't think there will be any kind of unity over the next 3 months.
(Part of me knows I should just stay off the BBSes and social media for
a while, pressure and stress are just getting hard to handle, and I
wasn't sleeping well before the election.)
I feel the same way, I was hoping for a Trump win as his values align more with
my values.
If their campaign was above board and no notable voter fraud was carried out, they should be in office. I don't think it matters who is in charge now, whether it's Trump or Biden, I can't see any light at the end of the tunnel from an economic perspective. I like to keep an eye on the USA because anything
that happens there appears to happen here too. Even during the George Floyd race riots, we had our own movement over here for no apparent reason; statues were being toppled over, etc...
Are you pressured and stressed because of the election or other things that are
going on in your personal life? You should definitely get some rest and try to
look after yourself!
they are hoping he will just let it go so 'they can move on and heal'
Yes, I've seen them urging him to concede quickly so that the country can move
on, come together and heal. The country appears so divisive right now that I don't think that's possible. Trump needs to be defeated in court before anything can happen because, as it stands, a lot of people think their guy has
been cheated.
I'd love to see civil war. We're way over do! Bring it on! I have my guns
locked and loaded.
Civil war, economic collapse or both. 2021 is going to be a hell of a year.
The Left
blame Trump and racism/institutional racism as minorities are the worst affected.
Combined with calls for enemy lists of all trump supporters, and getting people fired from jobs and preventing them from working in the future,
it's really concerning.
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Tue Nov 10 2020 05:26 pm
The Left
blame Trump and racism/institutional racism as minorities are the worst affected.
Funny thing, the right also seems to blame Obama for stirring up racism. My understanding is the right believes Obama put enough focus on racial issues that racial tension actually increase
Nightfox
The Left
blame Trump and racism/institutional racism as minorities are the worst affected.
Funny thing, the right also seems to blame Obama for stirring up racism. My understanding is the right believes Obama put enough focus on racial issues that racial tension actually increased.
Depends if they want to show themselves as being better than the Democrat rabble. No need to stoop to their level. The bigger issue is trust. I don't think that Trump supporters can place any trust in their opposition, not with AOC wanting to make lists and all.
Biden needs to show some initiative, and expunge the bad elements from his party, and restore the Democrats to a pro-workers party that represents the every man. Unlikely.
They won't. As I said before, the cultural differences between both groups are irreconcilable at this stage. I beleive Trump supporters are aware that the radical Left, such as AOC and Harris, are waiting in the wings. Biden doesn't appear to have the influence within his own party to expunge these elements. If you've watched the presidential election debates, you'd have observed that Biden has no intention of emulating a Jimmy Carter pro-worker style administration.
---
Well Trump voters are under no obligation to turn the other cheek, accept Biden
as their president-elect and come together with their Democrat neighbours. I >don't recall the Democrats accepting Trump as their president, having faith in >the democratic process and pushing aside their differences to heal as a nation.
When the left goes berserk, as we've seen, cities can count on long-term periods of violence and unrest with only light intervention.
Only when it's useful... Portland and Denver brought the hammer down on protestors after Biden was declared the winner.
I'm not a fan of Trump, and if the D's had put up someone that wasn't an insider chrony for 5 decades in politics with a grifter as a running
mate, I might have more hope right now.
I also find it *really* hard to support anyone in a political party that doesn't distance itself and includes prominent leaders embracing and
pushing for Marxist-style socialism.
I think it's more of a communist smoke screen to tear down the
establishment and bring forward marxist-style socialism. It's literally
the communist playbook. Right now, in the US looks a *LOT* like Russia
did 100 years ago. some of the names have changed, but the plays are
largely the same.
Funny thing, the right also seems to blame Obama for stirring up racism. My un
erstanding is the right believes Obama put enough focus on racial issues that r
cial tension actually increased.
I think it's more of a communist smoke screen to tear down the
establishment and bring forward marxist-style socialism. It's literally
the communist playbook. Right now, in the US looks a *LOT* like Russia
did 100 years ago. some of the names have changed, but the plays are
largely the same.
There's some believers, and I think they are being mislead as useful
idiots by those orchestrating.
Both... I work in the elections space, so actually know for a fact a lot
of the made up disinformation being spread. Other bits are plausible
and the culture war is escallating, not winding back. I know people at
work that are stressed, just because some of our systems are going to be audited... nothing was done wrong, but it's stressful all the same.
Even then, my shower had leaked into my kitchen 4 months ago, and
finally, Sunday work started on tearing the old shower out to get a new
one in... various contractor issues, insurance, etc.
Biden has been relatively humble in his messaging... unfortunately, for everyone else in his party that's signalling as weak and innefectual.
And even Biden's plans aren't really resonating with a majority of the people so far. Concerning me is his call for "anti-bullying policing" online... I mean, I'm not in favor of bullying, but you have to be able
to counter ideas, and I can only see this ending up with thought police.
Combined with calls for enemy lists of all trump supporters, and getting people fired from jobs and preventing them from working in the future,
it's really concerning.
We already have economic collapse, with double diget unemployment and
nearly 1/3 to 1/2 of all restaurants gone, with close to 1/3 of all businesses expected to die before it's done.
As to civil war, given the calls for enemy lists and the 5+ months of
riots, I'm not sure that's avoidable either at this point.
The radical left I believe are the biggest danger, and their desire to enact revent will only embolden Trump supporters to want to dig in harder and not concede defeat.
Sadly, the major parties have mechanisms in place to ensure that anyone who could stand a chance to improve the situation and help Americans doesn't stand a chance.
Me also. Just like Fascism, that type of government only works when any opposing views are stamped out and where everyone gives up nearly all of their personal freedom. It also does not last.
As it stands, the Trumpers are going to be very cross if they don't get closure. I reckon many will accept the result if no mass voter fraud is exposed.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Nov 11 2020 05:13 am
The radical left I believe are the biggest danger, and their desire to enact revent will only embolden Trump supporters to want to dig in harder and not concede defeat.
Sadly, the major parties have mechanisms in place to ensure that anyone who could stand a chance to improve the situation and help Americans doesn't stand a chance.
There's no middle ground now. It's genuinely quite scary as I see the entire USA as a massive powder keg which, once it explodes, is going to take a lot of us foreigners with them. I don't see much mediation going
on between either side now. Perhaps we'll see seperatist movements
trying to push for independence from the Union. Who knows!
On paper, yes. The collapse hasn't began in the real world yet. The mass unemployment you're experiencing at present is just the precursor for the chaos to come. As much as I don't like the idea, I think there will have to be a police state to maintain order. This happened during "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland where the British Army were in occupation and had checkpoints and road closures, and people were expected to carry papers, ID, etc...
Funny thing, the right also seems to blame Obama for stirring up racism.My understanding is the right believes Obama put enough focus on racial
issues that racial tension actually increased.
Not sure about racial tension specifically, but the division of the country increased between 2008 and 2016. How else do you think Trump got elected?
Fostering identity politics only increases the gaps between people and makes it harder to find things in common between people from different backgrounds.
I think the only way forward now is the dissolution of the USA into its components parts. It seems that it is different nations held together, loosely. I can't see how middle America would tolerate being governed by Californian liberals.
It would make sense. Neither side can truly change the direction of the USA the way they envisage due to the roughly 50/50 split between Democrat and Republican in the House of Representatives. Like you said, splitting the USA into component parts in a manner which they're able to hold autonamy and mak agreements/allegiances with like-minded states would be a far more beneficia solution than all this pointless bickering. Let the Left do whatever it is t want to do and, likewise, let the Right do whatever the hell they want to do In 20-30 years, we'll see which side has the best social and economic polici by comparing metrics.
Me also. Just like Fascism, that type of government only works when any opposing views are stamped out and where everyone gives up nearly all of their personal freedom. It also does not last.
The problem with these regimes is precisely that, once you reach that point, it
is very hard for the country to break out.
This is why when I see attempts at making some group of people dependant from >the government, I shiver. Once they depend on you, they are in your pocket, and
you can command them to fight your opposition...
Socialism is just a vehicle used to get to the end goal, which is Communism. Harris is openly stating that their policies are pushing for equality of outcome rather than equal opportunities. That's Communism!
I think the only way forward now is the dissolution of the USA into its components parts. It seems that it is different nations held together, loosely. I can't see how middle America would tolerate being governed by Californian liberals.
I think the only way forward now is the dissolution of the USA into its components parts. It seems that it is different nations held together, loosely. I can't see how middle America would tolerate being governed by Californian liberals.
It would make sense. Neither side can truly change the direction of the USA in the way they envisage due to the roughly 50/50 split between Democrat and Republican in the House of Representatives. Like you said, splitting the USA into component parts in a manner which they're able to hold autonamy and make agreements/allegiances with like-minded states would be a far more beneficial solution than all this pointless bickering. Let the Left do whatever it is they want to do and, likewise, let the Right do whatever the hell they want to do. In 20-30 years, we'll see which side has the best social and economic policies by comparing metrics.
---
It would make sense. Neither side can truly change the direction of the USA the way they envisage due to the roughly 50/50 split between Democrat and Republican in the House of Representatives. Like you said, splitting the USA into component parts in a manner which they're able to hold autonamy and mak agreements/allegiances with like-minded states would be a far more beneficia solution than all this pointless bickering. Let the Left do whatever it is t want to do and, likewise, let the Right do whatever the hell they want to do In 20-30 years, we'll see which side has the best social and economic polici by comparing metrics.
Last time they tried something similar, there was a war about it, if I recall correctly.
One way how is by the California (and other) liberals moving into non-liberal areas. Texas and Arizona are a couple of examples. I never thought there would be a day where Texas might be a swing state but it was thought to be before this election.
As best as I can tell, several states are ruled by the desires of a single liberal city or county. Chicago pulls the rest of Illinois left. Detroit (and the artsy-fartsy NW corner of the lower penninsula) pulls Michigan left. Louisville tries to pull Kentucky left. Las Vegas/Clark County pulls Nevada left.
It would make sense. Neither side can truly change the direction of the USA the way they envisage due to the roughly 50/50 split between Democrat and Republican in the House of Representatives. Like you said, splitting the USA into component parts in a manner which they're able to hold autonamy and mak agreements/allegiances with like-minded states would be a far more beneficia solution than all this pointless bickering. Let the Left do whatever it is t want to do and, likewise, let the Right do whatever the hell they want to do In 20-30 years, we'll see which side has the best social and economic polici by comparing metrics.
Last time they tried something similar, there was a war about it, if I recall correctly.
I am not sure what example where communism worked that the numbskulls think they can emulate. There is no place I know of where it has worked and remained in place and does not involve persistent human rights violations.
The war I think has already started, its just the shooting hasn't increased toan intensity where it looks like war. Politically though,
the USA is in acivil war, or close to one. It is very clear that not
only the parties, butinstitutions, are choosing their sides, and digging in.
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: Dumas Walker to ANDEDDU on Thu Nov 12 2020 02:01 pm
I am not sure what example where communism worked that the numbskulls thi they can emulate. There is no place I know of where it has worked and remained in place and does not involve persistent human rights violations
Communism has never worked anywhere EVER. Technology may be able to bridge t gap, however. Communism doesn't work on an economically fundamental level because there is no pricing mechanism in relation to scarce resources. With Capitalism we have supply and demand so resources are priced accordingly. Wi Communism you just have the state almost arbitrarily making things up which ultimately results in massive pricing errors ending in shortages and broken supply chains. I believe a digital currency may be able to solve that proble as the state will be able to monitor all transactions and use AI to accurate model supply and demand allowing them to price scarce resources accordingly.
I am not sure what example where communism worked that the numbskulls think >> they can emulate. There is no place I know of where it has worked and
remained in place and does not involve persistent human rights violations.
Communism has never worked anywhere EVER.
It is clear to me though, that the Democrats don't consider themselves as gover
ing for ALL of America.
The war I think has already started, its just the shooting hasn't increased toan intensity where it looks like war. Politically though, the USA is in acivil war, or close to one. It is very clear that not only the parties, butinstitutions, are choosing their sides, and digging in.
Wow... I mean, I do disagree with you - however, this is the first time I've heard someone talk about this being a thing in the United States... so, my eyes are open to this post... and this idea... and furthermore, I do understand where you're coming from and agree that the violence in America is pretty ridiculous.
My view is that... it always has been, or at least; it has been for decades, so... while I don't think we're in an active civil war - i can see the argument, and thats a scary thing.
I wish we could all just get along, but it seems like that will never happen.
I am not sure what example where communism worked that the numbskulls think >> they can emulate. There is no place I know of where it has worked and
remained in place and does not involve persistent human rights violations.
Communism has never worked anywhere EVER.
I agree, but I did want to leave myself wiggle room for the person(s) who point out "but China." Yes, they have been Communist for a while but they have only been able to remain so by persistently squashing all opposing views, violating the human rights of the persons who foster those views.
As you pointed out, the supply and demand mechanism does not exist and
those governments have a difficult time emulating it. That said, countries like China and the former USSR used that to their advantage also... forcing intentional shortages, famines, etc., in order to kill off those people
they no longer wanted to deal with.
* SLMR 2.1a * If you believe in telekinesis, please raise my hand.
Civilisations rot from the cities out, so I would think that at the start, middle America would not be favourable, but over time things will tilt the other way.
It is clear to me though, that the Democrats don't consider themselves as governing for ALL of America.
The war I think has already started, its just the shooting hasn't increased to an intensity where it looks like war. Politically though, the USA is in a civil war, or close to one. It is very clear that not only the parties, but institutions, are choosing their sides, and digging in.
Apology of automatically set prices is not new.
The problem is you need to monitor EVERYTHING for it to be plausible in theory _alone_.
Once everything is monitored you can bet the master of the machine will exploit his powers. For example, pricing coffee higher than it should.... what a coincidence that his cousing has a coffee industrial mill...
I agree, but I did want to leave myself wiggle room for the person(s) who point out "but China." Yes, they have been Communist for a while but they have only been able to remain so by persistently squashing all opposing views, violating the human rights of the persons who foster those views.
As you pointed out, the supply and demand mechanism does not exist and
those governments have a difficult time emulating it. That said, countries like China and the former USSR used that to their advantage also... forcing intentional shortages, famines, etc., in order to kill off those people
they no longer wanted to deal with.
By: Dennisk to Arelor on Fri Nov 13 2020 05:59 amAndeddu
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Sat Nov 14 2020 12:36 pm
By: Dennisk to Arelor on Fri Nov 13 2020 05:59 amAndeddu
You guys aren't US citizens. Where do you get off talking about MY country the way you do? What's going on in your own country? You don't know a thing about the great country of the United States and its citizens. We may disagr (as we always have) but we will never have another "CIVIL WAR". America will always stand together No Matter what!
... There are certain things men must do to remain men.
thing about the great country of the United States and its citizens. We may disagree (as we always have) but we will never have another "CIVIL WAR". America will always stand together No Matter what!
It is prety obvious for outsiders that America is not standing together right now.
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Fri Nov 13 2020 05:57 am
Civilisations rot from the cities out, so I would think that at the start, middle America would not be favourable, but over time things will tilt the other way.
It is clear to me though, that the Democrats don't consider themselves as governing for ALL of America.
It's not going to happen immediatly for obvious reasons regardless of who is sitting behind the resolute desk on January 20th '21. Biden acknowledges that the country will be facing a "dark winter"... he'll be right in the sense that we'll be seeing more systemic shutdowns due to increased COVID-19 cases, millions more workers becoming unemployed every couple of weeks along with civil unrest. Once everything gets sufficently bad, which I am speculating won't happen until summer '21, then we may see very polarising figures enter the fore and speak of subjects such as seperatism.
You guys aren't US citizens. Where do you get off talking about MY country the way you do? What's going on in your own country? You don't know a thing about the great country of the United States and its citizens. We may disagree (as we always have) but we will never have another "CIVIL WAR". America will always stand together No Matter what!
... There are certain things men must do to remain men.
A unified America will slowly become less and less tolerable to people, which will make separatism more and more appealing as time goes on. I'm quite sure powerful forces will not want to let that happens, but there will be increased unrest as social and political forces push against each other.
The USA is not behaving like a normal country.
By the way, the USA has been telling many, many other countries how to behave and act, and your crappy ideologies influence the rest of the world heavily, so yes, we have more than a right to weigh in with our opinions.
It is prety obvious for outsiders that America is not standing together right now.
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: MRO to Arelor on Sat Nov 14 2020 07:24 pm
It is prety obvious for outsiders that America is not standing together right now.
Why do you say that? Because that's what the liberal news media tells you? Other then the media talking trash every night I don't see any evidence of citizens not standing together. We really don't have any other choice with t Covid shit getting worse by the day. People are too scared and sick to fight each other. With the winter months ahead it's not going to get any better that's for sure. People will be getting the regular Flu on top of Covid. There's no way to distribute the vaccine quickly and safely unless we all ge along.
The USA is not behaving like a normal country.
maybe they need to start acting like us.
By the way, the USA has been telling many, many other countries how to behave and act, and your crappy ideologies influence the rest of the
world heavily, so yes, we have more than a right to weigh in with our opinions.
You guys aren't US citizens. Where do you get off talking about MY country the way you do? What's going on in your own country? You don't know a thing about the great country of the United States and its citizens. We may disagree (as we always have) but we will never have another "CIVIL WAR". America will always stand together No Matter what!
A unified America will slowly become less and less tolerable to people, which will make separatism more and more appealing as time goes on. I'm quite sure powerful forces will not want to let that happens, but there will be increased unrest as social and political forces push against each other.
I think in this decade, we will see a marked decline in the standard of living, as the US moves further and further away from first world nation status.
The real dark scenario is the rise of China it its place, IMO. A frightful scenario.
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: MRO to Arelor on Sat Nov 14 2020 07:24 pm
It is prety obvious for outsiders that America is not standing
together right now.
Why do you say that? Because that's what the liberal news media tells you?
citizens. We may disagree (as we always have) but we will never have
another "CIVIL WAR". America will always stand together No Matter
what!
We are educated and have an outside perspective along with a more non-partisan view on the happenings within your country. More importantly, the USA has a central role to play in World events; what happens in your country deeply affects ours.
You guys aren't US citizens. Where do you get off talking about MY country the >way you do? What's going on in your own country? You don't know a thing about t
he great country of the United States and its citizens. We may disagree (as we >lways have) but we will never have another "CIVIL WAR". America will always sta
d together No Matter what!
The real dark scenario is the rise of China it its place, IMO. A frightful sce
ario.
By the way, the USA has been telling many, many other countries how to behave a
d act, and your crappy ideologies influence the rest of the world heavily, so y
s, we have more than a right to weigh in with our opinions.
you do NOT know about the united states because you are NOT in the united states of america. there is no way for you to know.
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: MRO to Andeddu on Sun Nov 15 2020 10:44 am
you do NOT know about the united states because you are NOT in the
united states of america. there is no way for you to know.
That is pretty much like people tellign you that you can t have an
you do NOT know about the united states because you are NOT in the
united states of america. there is no way for you to know.
That is pretty much like people tellign you that you can‡ t have an opinion racism because you are not black, or on gay rights because you are not gay.
I'm saying is people that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. If you want to bitch about another country, bitch about your own. Yes, America is a mess right now, but if you weren't around in the late 60's and early 70's you don't know what messy is. We all got through that craziness and we'll get through this too. Peace ;-)
MRO wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: Dennisk to HusTler on Sat Nov 14 2020 08:33 pm
The USA is not behaving like a normal country.
maybe they need to start acting like us.
By the way, the USA has been telling many, many other countries how to behave and act, and your crappy ideologies influence the rest of the world heavily, so yes, we have more than a right to weigh in with our opinions.
that's because we have treaties with all kinds of countries that we
have to follow. we also give tons and tons and tons of money and resources to good for nothing countries.
when you see the usa go into another country that is because they
asked, or someone else asked. the media just doesnt report on it. if
we went and did something like that without permission that would
start a war.
and if we sneeze and your country gets a cold, maybe your country is
too fucking weak. ---
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Sat Nov 14 2020 08:24 pm
A unified America will slowly become less and less tolerable to people, which will make separatism more and more appealing as time goes on. I'm quite sure powerful forces will not want to let that happens, but there will be increased unrest as social and political forces push against each other.
I think in this decade, we will see a marked decline in the standard of living, as the US moves further and further away from first world nation status.
The real dark scenario is the rise of China it its place, IMO. A frightful scenario.
Seperatism in such a scenario would be the natural conclusion were we
not accounting for the dark forces at play looking to consolidate their power. There will absolutely be a marked decline in the standard of living, but I don't think it'll be isolated to the USA. I believe all Western nations are going to suffer a palpable decline in quality of
life. China ARE going to become the World's superpower within this
decade. It won't be long now before the dollar loses its reserve
currency status; and when that happens, we can all kiss goodbye to
cheap electronic goods from Asia. Also, China are beginning to show imperialistic tendendices and are likely going to make a move on Taiwan which is a country that's massively important in the high-tech supply chain. Deloitte have projected China's GDP in 2030 to be worth 60Tr USD with the USA's GDP at a mere 30Tr USD. Notwithstanding an event such as WWIII taking place, China will naturally become the World's premier superpower.
Dumas Walker wrote to DENNISK <=-
The real dark scenario is the rise of China it its place, IMO. A frightful sce
ario.
I have seen some Australian news video where they speculate that, with Biden as the US President, China will "come after" Australia. Is that
how most Australians actually feel? I don't trust China at all.
you do NOT know about the united states because you are NOT in the united states of america. there is no way for you to know.
the only thing you think you know is what th media has shown you and you can never trust the media.
saying is people that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. If you want to bitch about another country, bitch about your own. Yes, America is a mess right now, but if you weren't around in the late 60's and early 70's you don't know what messy is. We all got through that craziness and we'll get through this too. Peace ;-)
HusTler wrote to Andeddu <=-
citizens. We may disagree (as we always have) but we will never have another "CIVIL WAR". America will always stand together No Matter what!
MRO wrote to HusTler <=-
and our last civil war was really about money and about the government
not protecting the southern states from bandits. ---
I have bad news for you. The Civil War has already started.
The only question is whether we can nip it before it gets worse. But the De controlled cities/states seem to have no desire to curb the domestic terrorirists that are causing problems.
The mistake was having an economy dependent on China, we placed our balls in >their hands, and now they are starting to squeeze. Why Australia thought that >wouldn't happen, that a foreign country wouldn't try to take advantage of us, I
don't know.
My country dabbled with cozying up to China, which was a big mistake.
Also, I'm not sold 100% on the idea that every U.S. foreign intervention was requested, that the USA goes into these adventures reluctantly after being begged.
I don't think China will be as successful as people claim. I recall similar talk of Japan, and when Japan reached a US level of development, they staganated. I think China will do the same. People that makes these
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: MRO to Andeddu on Sun Nov 15 2020 10:44 am
you do NOT know about the united states because you are NOT in the
united states of america. there is no way for you to know.
the only thing you think you know is what th media has shown you and
you can never trust the media.
That's not a good position to take. That's like saying a male doctor
60's and early 70's you don't know what messy is. We all got through
that craziness and we'll get through this too. Peace ;-)
I could bitch about my country all day. The spotlight is on America right now though, so there's no point in getting defensive when we point out her flaws.
MRO wrote to HusTler <=-
and our last civil war was really about money and about the
government not protecting the southern states from bandits. ---
Wars are always about money and power. Everything else is propaganda designed to get support.
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: Dr. What to HusTler on Mon Nov 16 2020 10:31 am
I have bad news for you. The Civil War has already started.
The only question is whether we can nip it before it gets worse. But the controlled cities/states seem to have no desire to curb the domestic terrorirists that are causing problems.
You may be right. If you saw my post the link lead to a video showing a bla guy sucker punching a white guy during a Washington DC demonstration Saturda I was infuriated when I saw this. If I was there I would have shot that n*$g I'm not sure all this has anything to do with political parties. Liberial v Conservative. I think it's more Black vs White. It just so happens more blac are libetarian and more whites are conservative.It's very deep rooted stuff.
... Facts cannot prevail against faith, or adamant folly.
MRO wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Nov 16 2020 09:14 pm
I don't think China will be as successful as people claim. I recall similar talk of Japan, and when Japan reached a US level of development, they staganated. I think China will do the same. People that makes these
you really need to research china.
china dominates.
they have most of the steel industry and about half of other
industries. they are the world's biggest producer of ships, trains, bridges, bridges, highways, computers, cellphones, and tons of other
shit. ---
it's sad that i've talked to school teachers and college professors who thin it was only to end slavery. each of those states signed a declaration stati all the reasons. ---
I don't think China will be as successful as people claim. I recall similar talk of Japan, and when Japan reached a US level of development, they staganated. I think China will do the same. People that makes these statements look at financials and the economy, but neglect to consider demographics, and the fact that the Chinese are simply a different people to Americans.
China will be a stagnant totalitarian nightmare. If the US falls, the rest of the world goes with it.
you keep throwing back these bullshit analogies. 'that's like...'
it's like what it is. you do not know what it's like to live in my country and what goes on in my country unless you LIVE here. otherwise all you know is what your media is force feeding you.
I don't think China will be as successful as people claim. I recall
similar talk of Japan, and when Japan reached a US level of
development, they staganated. I think China will do the same. People
that makes these
you really need to research china.
china dominates.
they have most of the steel industry and about half of other industries. they are the world's biggest producer of ships, trains, bridges, bridges, highways, computers, cellphones, and tons of other shit. ---
My thinking is that China will staganate. China has never dominated the world.
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: MRO to Andeddu on Mon Nov 16 2020 10:49 pm
you keep throwing back these bullshit analogies. 'that's like...'
it's like what it is. you do not know what it's like to live in my
country and what goes on in my country unless you LIVE here. otherwise
all you know is what your media is force feeding you.
Nonsense. So you're saying that you can't speak about something unless you ARE that something. Sorry, but that's not how the world works. I could say
that you know fuck all about 49 states because you live in just one, and each state differs massively from the next. In that case, you don't know much more about the USA than I do.
Yep, and I'm not really surprised. China has one of the biggest populations of any country on the planet, so they have a large pool of workers to produce a lot of things. A while ago, one thing I saw that I thought was interesting was a video of a (pretty much) fully automated shipping container terminal that can take large boxes of freight and automatically sort them based on where they need to go, place them on ships, and take them from incoming ships, using robotic arms & transport vehicles & such.
I'm not a fan of Trump, and if the D's had put up someone that wasn't an insider chrony for 5 decades in politics with a grifter as a runningOpen dialog is what people need the most in life. You have your political opinions and I have my own but that doesn't mean we can't sit at the table together discussing our own viewpoints. I will stand by what I stated earlier, Trump's values align most with my values and thats whom I would have voted for if I was an American citizen, instead I'm Canadian.
mate, I might have more hope right now.
I also find it *really* hard to support anyone in a political party that doesn't distance itself and includes prominent leaders embracing and pushing for Marxist-style socialism.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Nov 16 2020 09:14 pm
I don't think China will be as successful as people claim. I recall similar talk of Japan, and when Japan reached a US level of development, they staganated. I think China will do the same. People that makes these statements look at financials and the economy, but neglect to consider demographics, and the fact that the Chinese are simply a different people to Americans.
China will be a stagnant totalitarian nightmare. If the US falls, the rest of the world goes with it.
The problem with China is Communism. Once the US, along with most of
the West, falls and becomes unable to purchase Chinese goods, they will have NO CHOICE but to allow the creation of a middle class with enough capital to purchase the good they themselves produce. In such a world, China would be similar to the USA back in the 50/60s. Totalitarianism
WILL hold them back though, and without personal freedoms, the Chinese people are going to be unable to take advantage of the global downturn. All the chips are on their side of the table. They have all the infastructure required for a powerful manufacturing economy but once
they lose their international buyers, they will have to change their social stance in order to become self-sufficient
MRO wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: Dennisk to MRO on Tue Nov 17 2020 09:39 pm
My thinking is that China will staganate. China has never dominated the world.
they are dominating the world right now.
not only that, but they just fucked up the whole world with covid-19
too ---
MRO wrote to Dr. What <=-
it's sad that i've talked to school teachers and college professors who think it was only to end slavery. each of those states signed a declaration stating all the reasons. ---
Dennisk wrote to MRO <=-
My thinking is that China will staganate. China has never dominated
the world.
The Chinese do not want to.
MRO wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: Dennisk to MRO on Tue Nov 17 2020 09:39 pm
My thinking is that China will staganate. China has never dominated
the world.
they are dominating the world right now.
not only that, but they just fucked up the whole world with covid-19
too ---
No, the USA has far more dominance and sway than China. Militarily, politically, economically and culturally. These two powers are meeting each other, but a China dominated world (if it happens), will be a stagnant one.
that you know fuck all about 49 states because you live in just one, and each state differs massively from the next. In that case, you don't know much more about the USA than I do.
you can split hairs if you want.
That is where I think things will fall apart. China does have the capability, physically, to create a strong middle class, but I suspect they won't be able to adapt to the social and political change that is required. I think the West adapts well to new situations, and is able to go through revolutions and keep on running. I'm not sure that China can adapt politically to the new reality it is creating materially. It isn't simply a matter of increased production, you need new IDEAS to make it work. America could do this, with many out of the box thinkers, new ideas (not all good, and today, most not good) permeating through. I just don't see that capability in China.
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: MRO to Andeddu on Tue Nov 17 2020 07:24 pm
that you know fuck all about 49 states because you live in just
one, and each state differs massively from the next. In that case,
you don't know much more about the USA than I do.
you can split hairs if you want.
Right, so we are all varying degrees of ignorant then. We all have opinions though and are free to say what we like, whether we are right or wrong.
Dr. What wrote to Dennisk <=-
Dennisk wrote to MRO <=-
My thinking is that China will staganate. China has never dominated
the world.
The Chinese do not want to.
I have a disagree with that. I believe that the Chinese do want to.
But like all socialist governments, they stifle their own ability to do so. Socialists believe that the people in charge are smart enough to figure it all out and history has proven that completely wrong.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Nov 18 2020 10:22 pm
That is where I think things will fall apart. China does have the capability, physically, to create a strong middle class, but I suspect they won't be able to adapt to the social and political change that is required. I think the West adapts well to new situations, and is able to go through revolutions and keep on running. I'm not sure that China can adapt politically to the new reality it is creating materially. It isn't simply a matter of increased production, you need new IDEAS to make it work. America could do this, with many out of the box thinkers, new ideas (not all good, and today, most not good) permeating through. I just don't see that capability in China.
It wouldn't surprise me, if anything China are getting tighter with
their government apparatus rather than more lenient. I don't know if
the CCP have it in them to let go of all that power and relax their
laws regarding property rights, etc... it'll be an interesting number
of years because once China's exports run dry, they'll be up shit creek without a paddle too. Uncertain times ahead...
But the Civil War was pretty much about States rights vs. Federal Gov't. Can >the Fed impose rules upon the states? Well, the Fed won and the answer
is a qualified "yes."
It just so happens more blacks are libetarian and more whites are conservative.
I'm not a fan of Trump, and if the D's had put up someone that wasn't an
insider chrony for 5 decades in politics with a grifter as a running
mate, I might have more hope right now.
I also find it *really* hard to support anyone in a political party that
doesn't distance itself and includes prominent leaders embracing and
pushing for Marxist-style socialism.
Open dialog is what people need the most in life. You have your political opinions and I have my own but that doesn't mean we can't sit at the table together discussing our own viewpoints. I will stand by what I stated earlier,
Trump's values align most with my values and thats whom I would have voted for
if I was an American citizen, instead I'm Canadian.
They have freed the market to some degree, which is why their economy has grown so much. Though when you grow from nothing, the growth figures are always high.
People have a very economy-centric view of things. They think that just having a big economy makes you a power. There are a lot of other subtle characteristics that make a country a power. My argument is that economy alone won't do it
I'm not an expert on China, but we do have significant Chinese presence in Australia. Without the West, they would not be where they are now.
A Chinese led world will stagnate. Absolutely.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Nov 19 2020 09:12 pm
They have freed the market to some degree, which is why their economy has grown so much. Though when you grow from nothing, the growth figures are always high.
People have a very economy-centric view of things. They think that just having a big economy makes you a power. There are a lot of other subtle characteristics that make a country a power. My argument is that economy alone won't do it
I'm not an expert on China, but we do have significant Chinese presence in Australia. Without the West, they would not be where they are now.
A Chinese led world will stagnate. Absolutely.
China will become the World's premier superpower due to the USA's
decline and fall. I agree that they'll have A LOT less cultural
influence than America has had in the past. Again, it depends on what happens to our own cultures over the next couple of years as the
economic collapse will result in a paradigm shift. Our decisions
regarding COVID have ravaged our economies and it'll take many years to rebuild what we've lost.
Their military is behind the USA's but as far as I can tell, they're investing a lot more in high tech war machines with a focus on unmanned vehicles and AI. I don't doubt that by the end of the decade, they will have the most powerful military.
Either way, I'd like to see the USA recover quickly to reclaim its
former position. With Biden in charge, I can't see that happening as
he's absolutely committed to green energy and transforming the economic system at its foundational level. It's a big gamble as it's going to place the USA into trillions of more debt (it's already reached 27Tr USD... 27 million million dollars, like, what the fuck?) and we have no idea if it'll be efficent enough to produce the desired results.
Do you think in 2050 that China will project the same cultural and
political influence that the USA did in 1985? Do you think the world
will take their cues, and be influenced by China, wanting to be China,
in the same way?
Think about all the developments we take for granted, the car, plane, computers and computing software and systems, much science and
technology, democracy, liberty, the standard world language, English,
all from the West. China has one FIFTH of the worlds population, but doesn't have that influence. When the West invented the printing press,
it caused a revolution, not just in printing, but in religion and
ideology, it changed us completely. China didn't undergo such a change.
That is the difference. China may end up having power, and military control, but it won't be a world-shaper the way that Britain or the US,
or even Greece and Rome was. They try to sell the idea that Australia should be part of Asia here, but it is only opportunistic business
leaders who want to sell us out that say that. It won't happen. China
only influences "Chinese Living Abroad". It is an insular nation.
We are exposed to China a lot in Australia, and China is just a
precense, maybe a bully, but not a leader, not a model. Their empire
won't last nearly as long, hell, they are gaining more and more
opposition and movement against them, and they haven't even started.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Sun Nov 08 2020 12:42 am
Do you think in 2050 that China will project the same cultural and
political influence that the USA did in 1985? Do you think the world
will take their cues, and be influenced by China, wanting to be China,
in the same way?
Think about all the developments we take for granted, the car, plane, computers and computing software and systems, much science and
technology, democracy, liberty, the standard world language, English,
all from the West. China has one FIFTH of the worlds population, but doesn't have that influence. When the West invented the printing press,
it caused a revolution, not just in printing, but in religion and
ideology, it changed us completely. China didn't undergo such a change.
That is the difference. China may end up having power, and military control, but it won't be a world-shaper the way that Britain or the US,
or even Greece and Rome was. They try to sell the idea that Australia should be part of Asia here, but it is only opportunistic business
leaders who want to sell us out that say that. It won't happen. China
only influences "Chinese Living Abroad". It is an insular nation.
We are exposed to China a lot in Australia, and China is just a
precense, maybe a bully, but not a leader, not a model. Their empire
won't last nearly as long, hell, they are gaining more and more
opposition and movement against them, and they haven't even started.
Absent in China are any revolutions that the West had to undergo in the last 5 centuries. Their top down stranglehold on the population is both
a strength and a weakness though. I think they have enough steam to
bully other nations for a considerable length of time, perhaps for the remainder of my natural lifetime. They are an example of an ordered society, one which has underwent severe social conditioning and
control. Everyone seems to have a place and something to contribute to society. Do you not think that this model could be imported as a
template for Western nations?
Scholars say that Western culture is dying. This means that it'll be replaced with something else... the question is - what?
I think Western leaders have tried, and failed. I believe there are differences between the East and West, and this is one of the ways it manifests itself. Europe has fewer people than China, yet is diverse, divided, difficult to control. You could take over maybe a few countries, but you would be stopped by another strong country, and another strong leader. China on the other hand can run under one system, because there is so little opposition, comparitively speaking. If Xi Xinping was in Europe, there would be another equal to face him. The question is, is the Chinese mentality a product of their systems, or are their systems a product of their mentality? I suspect the latter. Social conditioning and conformity works because of the population. China today isn't vastly different to China in the past in many ways. Sure, there have been rebellions, but China today is still unified. European Communism on the other hand fell apart. How long would Hitler have controlled Europe without coming undone? Not for generations. Even the Romans had trouble with the Barbarians up north. The Ottomans and Mongols were stopped at Vienna.
Is there a growing fascist presence in the USA? Absolutely. But I can't imagine it taking over the way that the Chinese version did, not without the country breaking apart, and some form of dissolution of the USA into its component parts. Europe may be more prone to fascism (as they have historically been, which is why the USA is really the core of Western Civilisation). This is why I think China is in actuality weak, as paradoxical as it sounds. The reason that China can be a quasi-totalitarian state with over 1 billion people working in lockstep is precisely because it lacks the dynamism within the people which propels civilisation forward.
I predict that the upcoming economic downturn will be severe enough to resul in such a high level of volatility and instability that the people are going DEMAND a more ordered and structured society. I genuinely wouldn't be surpri if I saw the police gradually becoming more and more authoritarian as our wa of life descends into complete disarray. When there's a real chance of viole erupting in the streets whenever you're out and there's stories of home invasions and thefts, vandalisms and muggings on the rise, etc... freedom lo its importance in favour of security. We could realistically end up with a system much like China's... the only difference is that once the dust has settled and everything returns to a state of normality, would we still toler government oppression?
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Sun Nov 22 2020 09:13 pm
I think Western leaders have tried, and failed. I believe there are differences between the East and West, and this is one of the ways it manifests itself. Europe has fewer people than China, yet is diverse, divided, difficult to control. You could take over maybe a few countries, but you would be stopped by another strong country, and another strong leader. China on the other hand can run under one system, because there is so little opposition, comparitively speaking. If Xi Xinping was in Europe, there would be another equal to face him. The question is, is the Chinese mentality a product of their systems, or are their systems a product of their mentality? I suspect the latter. Social conditioning and conformity works because of the population. China today isn't vastly different to China in the past in many ways. Sure, there have been rebellions, but China today is still unified. European Communism on the other hand fell apart. How long would Hitler have controlled Europe without coming undone? Not for generations. Even the Romans had trouble with the Barbarians up north. The Ottomans and Mongols were stopped at Vienna.
Is there a growing fascist presence in the USA? Absolutely. But I can't imagine it taking over the way that the Chinese version did, not without the country breaking apart, and some form of dissolution of the USA into its component parts. Europe may be more prone to fascism (as they have historically been, which is why the USA is really the core of Western Civilisation). This is why I think China is in actuality weak, as paradoxical as it sounds. The reason that China can be a quasi-totalitarian state with over 1 billion people working in lockstep is precisely because it lacks the dynamism within the people which propels civilisation forward.
I guess it's only conjecture but you may be correct about the mentality aspect. Even Japan, which is capitalistic in nature, appears more
ordered than most Western nations.
I predict that the upcoming economic downturn will be severe enough to result in such a high level of volatility and instability that the
people are going to DEMAND a more ordered and structured society. I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if I saw the police gradually becoming more and more authoritarian as our way of life descends into complete disarray. When there's a real chance of violence erupting in the
streets whenever you're out and there's stories of home invasions and thefts, vandalisms and muggings on the rise, etc... freedom loses its importance in favour of security. We could realistically end up with a system much like China's... the only difference is that once the dust
has settled and everything returns to a state of normality, would we
still tolerate government oppression?
Europe is also a tough cookie to crack as it's many different nations
and cultures rolled up into a relatively small geographical area. The Western nations of Europe are also culturally and historically distinct from the Eastern Slavonic states.
Arelor wrote to Andeddu <=-
That sounds like Venezuela to me.
Appoint a dear leader to save us all during a time of emergency. Then
the leader screws everybody up and squeezes the country dry.
That sounds like Venezuela to me.
Appoint a dear leader to save us all during a time of emergency. Then the leader screws everybody up and squeezes the country dry.
--
Europe is also a tough cookie to crack as it's many different nations and cultures rolled up into a relatively small geographical area. The Western nations of Europe are also culturally and historically distinct from the Eastern Slavonic states.
Something I don't think that Europeans realize about the United States is that it, too, has areas that are culturally and at least recent-historically distinct.
Those distinctions may not necessarly follow state boundaries, but they do follow regional ones. TV and the Internet may have made that less so, but it is so. The only time the US seems to have the same aims is when we are at war with someone. Let too much time without a war pass and we start fighting with each other.
obviously deeper in Europe though as the Slavonic states have their own languages and a completely seperate culture (literature, entertainment, cuisine...etc,) which is no where near as Americanised as our own.
obviously deeper in Europe though as the Slavonic states have their own languages and a completely seperate culture (literature, entertainment, cuisine...etc,) which is no where near as Americanised as our own.
usa has separate cutures. usa was a melting pot.
a lot of immigrants dont leave behind their culture.
on my mom's side those fuckers are american gypsies. you wouldnt be understand their language and some of them pretty much exist out of normal society.
the usa is probably the most diverse country on the planet.
Yes, I agree that the US is diverse enough and is large enough to from a geographic perspective to produce culturally distinct regions. It's obviously deeper in Europe though as the Slavonic states have their own languages and a completely seperate culture (literature, entertainment, cuisine...etc,) which is no where near as Americanised as our own.
That is true. We only have pockets of distinctions as deep as that,
and many of them are disappearing/have disappeared in the information age.
We in the UK are much more culturally aligned with our American cousins than we are with Eastern Europeans. I really don't think there's much that seperates us over here than with yourselves.
we arent cousins and we arent that same.
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: MRO to Andeddu on Fri Nov 27 2020 04:22 pm
we arent cousins and we arent that same.
The social kindship between the Americans and the British has existed through most of the duration of US history, and was remarked upon by some of the Founders of the United States soon after the Revolutionary War - particularly the first US Ambassador to the United Kingdom, John Adams.
Andeddu wrote to MRO <=-
we arent cousins and we arent that same.
The social kindship between the Americans and the British has
existed through most of the duration of US history, and was
remarked upon by some of the Founders of the United States soon
after the Revolutionary War - particularly the first US
Ambassador to the United Kingdom, John Adams.
Right. Then maybe you'll understand this:
Bugger off, mate.
The social kindship between the Americans and the British has
existed through most of the duration of US history, and was
remarked upon by some of the Founders of the United States soon
after the Revolutionary War - particularly the first US
Ambassador to the United Kingdom, John Adams.
The "duration of US history" implies the future. I personally don't like British people and feel no kindship what so ever.
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: HusTler to Anduddu on Thu Dec 03 2020 07:46 am
The "duration of US history" implies the future. I personally don't
like British people and feel no kindship what so ever.
That's you though. Past Presidents and Prime Ministers have spoken of our 'special relationship'... I believe even Trump echoed similar sentiment
MRO wrote to Andeddu <=-
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: Andeddu to HusTler on Thu Dec 03 2020 05:58 pm
Re: Re: Who WON??
By: HusTler to Anduddu on Thu Dec 03 2020 07:46 am
The "duration of US history" implies the future. I personally don't
like British people and feel no kindship what so ever.
That's you though. Past Presidents and Prime Ministers have spoken of our 'special relationship'... I believe even Trump echoed similar sentiment
well the UK is the usa's bitch. so if you want to call it a special relationship, go ahead. more like special as in mentally retarded.
The "duration of US history" implies the future. I personally don't
like British people and feel no kindship what so ever.
That's you though. Past Presidents and Prime Ministers have spoken of our 'special relationship'... I believe even Trump echoed similar sentiment
well the UK is the usa's bitch. so if you want to call it a special relationship, go ahead. more like special as in mentally retarded.
That's you though. Past Presidents and Prime Ministers have spoken of our 'special relationship'... I believe even Trump echoed similar sentiments.
I believe you are correct re: Trump.
Re: US (hearts) UK (or not!)
By: Dumas Walker to ANDEDDU on Fri Dec 04 2020 11:31 am
I believe you are correct re: Trump.
Trump's mother is British which is why he has such a soft spot for my country. When Obama said we'd be at the back of the queue re Brexit, Trump said we'd be at the front.
I believe you are correct re: Trump.
Trump's mother is British which is why he has such a soft spot for my country. >When Obama said we'd be at the back of the queue re Brexit, Trump said we'd be >at the front.
i dont think trump has a soft spot for the uk.
Re: US (hearts) UK (or not!)
By: MRO to Andeddu on Sat Dec 05 2020 05:45 pm
i dont think trump has a soft spot for the uk.
He was very nice to begin with and did gratiate us with compliments, however he has become rather cross with many of our politicans over the last couple of years.
Winston Churchill's mother was also an American, IIRC.
Obama was very soft on the EU. They could ask or do what they wanted to
and he'd go along with it. "Take on a bigger burden re: pollution so that other countries like China can skate a while longer? Sure thing!" It will be interesting to see how our relationship with Britain goes with Biden
(or Harris) at the helm. I fear that you all might be back at the back of the queue again.
here's how trump works.
he makes friends from enemies.
he invites them over and they have a great weekend together. this is what everyone says about him. he makes friends with them. when they are friends they are less likely to make shitty comments and do shitty things.
it's a great tactic regardless of his motives.
I would agree however our Conservative politicans were glad Biden won the election. Brexit is a total farce, I am not even convinced it'll happen anymor
as there's next to no political will to get it over the line. The politicians we have appear to be pro-EU and the only reason they're carrying out any discussion is due to the will of the people as per the '16 referendum. I think
Johnson has more in common with Biden than Trump. All of a sudden he's talking
about his Ten Point Plan for a Green Industrial Revolution which is identical to The Green New Deal proposed by Biden and his cohorts. He used to talk like Trump in regards to rebuilding a manufacturing base but it is now all about climate change and sustainable development.
| Sysop: | Gary Ailes |
|---|---|
| Location: | Pittsburgh, PA |
| Users: | 106 |
| Nodes: | 5 (0 / 5) |
| Uptime: | 102:22:40 |
| Calls: | 588 |
| Files: | 2,171 |
| Messages: | 64,915 |